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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:42 am 
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Andrew wrote:
The farm structure adds to the amount you get every 24 ticks, depending on the level it adds 1, 3, 6, 10, or 15 to your worker growth.

-Andrew



And with these changes, is that staying the same?

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:45 am 
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I like the conquer/worker idea so far.
Glad you scraped the taxation cap idea!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:06 am 
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apollo wrote:
And with these changes, is that staying the same?



Those are the values they are now and they won't be changing at all in this update as it stands right now.

-Andrew

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:23 am 
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Please realize that the following was written while at work today, and thus was made without knowing that Andrew had already said they would take away the 8% taxation. However, I still feel that the 8% could be viable, and you'll have to read my post to figure out why I would speak such madness, even in the face of 5 pages of anger at that idea.

In order to respond to this proposed change, I must first take a little trip down analysis lane. For those who know me, a trip into my world can be scary at best, and some have never returned from it, so please, be careful when trying to comprehend that which is my logic. ; ) For those who aren’t prepared for that which is my insanely awesome brain, skip to the end for the teal deer version. But for those who are brave enough, let’s take a walk through my world.

The first thing you have to do is take a look at why these changes are being made. And not just why, but WHY. The difference? Well, let’s take a look at Andrew’s post. He says it’s to prevent "keeping weaker colonies under your thumb." Now, that’s all fine and dandy, but it’s not really the root of the situation. What is the root of this problem that has been plaguing Battledawn’s staff since before I took my leave of absence nearly a year ago?

Well, of course I’m going to answer my own rhetorical question, as this would be a rather short post if I didn’t. And, of course, I’m going to answer it in a way that benefits my argument. But, I believe my analysis of BD’s staff’s motivation is rather spot on, based on some of the other posts I saw on the old forum and the changes that have been enacted.

The staff wants to make this game easier for the lower level of players.

Realistically speaking, there are two levels to this game. The upper level, the donators, the ones who wage multi hundred tick wars over relics, the ones who, like Kane said, farm the lower level. These lower level players are, however, the backbone of this game. While it may be the donators who are paying the bills, tokens can only go so far towards building an army, especially once overhead starts rearing its ugly head. It’s the conquer farms that allow us upper level players to play the way we do. Without them (and, of course, their income), we don’t have relic wars. You can also make a distinction between rising players, those going from the lower to the upper tier, and also when a large enough group of lowers have banded together and are able to defend themselves against uppers, but those players are (unfortunately) few and far between.

So, now we take a look at these changes, and specifically, the taxation % drop and the taxation cap.

First, the % drop. This is a bad idea across the board. First off, you are going to shoot every player who has even 1 conquer in the foot. Sure, this may give the conquered colony 1 or 2 more resource per tick, but that person isn’t really going to notice that little of an increase (or lack of decrease). However, dropping 1 or 2 off a 50 conquer empire, or even more resource per conquer depending on how advanced they are, will have a BIG impact on the upper level players. Now, I understand that this is the point, to give the little guys a bit more of an edge against their oppressors, but that’s not the only thing that will come from this change. Across the board, you will see far fewer units produced by the bigger players, and because of that, less interaction on a global scale. You will see the relic wars happen on a much smaller scale. I won’t say that the relic wars won’t happen, because they will, but you are quite literally taking the most important aspect of this game (collecting all 10 to win) and saying it’s not quite as important any more, since you’re taking away our ability to pursue this goal.

Now, let’s look at arguably the most important players in this game. No, not the big time donators, as they are set into the game no matter what. No, not the farms, who may be the backbone, but aren’t as important as one other group. The most important players are those up and comers, the ones climbing through the ranks, who are trying to make a name for themselves. It’s these new(ish, because let’s face it, you rarely get a top 10 player in his first full round of play) players who are the future of the game. They are the ones who will become big time donators in a year. But, if they get their butts kicked in the first couple hundred ticks, they will be much less likely to come back next era, or to even finish this era. It’s THOSE people that the game’s staff should really focus on.

Now, what we have here, with this taxation decrease, is a roundabout attempt at helping the lower or rising. However, it is done by proxy, not by direct affect. By taking down the infrastructure and therefore army size of the big guys, the little guys are slightly better off. However, this has far reaching affects, as stated above. What we need is a way to attack the problem of the little guys getting stomped on without hurting the rest of the game, namely, the relic aspect that the little guys will 99.9% never touch anyway.

And, whadaya know, I think I just might have an idea to help us out. ; )

So, let’s take this decreased % taxation idea, and expand it a bit. But first, one must consider, with regard to the all important rising player, how this affects him. He is now getting shot in the foot while trying to run and catch up to the upper level players. How is this benefiting him? How is this making it easier for him to climb from rank 1500 to 500, where he can finally start rolling with the big dogs? Simply put, it’s not. But is there a way we can make it work for him, and not for the upper guys?

YES THERE IS. It’s called scaling, and it allows the game to tailor taxation based on rank. By basing it on rank, we can allow the little guys to have a boost that falls off once you climb through the ranks. Coupled with what I’m about to suggest later on, you can also keep the 8% taxation for the upper players, and scale a bit higher for the lower guys. For example:

Top 25% of players - 8% taxation rate

26%-50% - 10%

51%-75% - 12%

76%-100% - 14%

Or whatever brackets/taxation percents you want to throw in.

BUT, we still haven’t tackled the problem with limiting the power of upper players. To fix this, we can apply another scale, this one to production. By applying a small % increase to production, both from workers and facilities, we can keep from penalizing the upper players because the taxation decrease will be offset by a production increase from the conquered colonies. This production bonus would be applied BEFORE taxation was taken from the conquered colony. It would look something like this:

Top 25% of players – 0% production bonus

26%-50% - 5%

51%-75% - 10%

76%-100% - 20%

Once again, the numbers are subject to change, per Staff decision. So, say I conquer Bob of Bob. He makes 50 metal per tick. That means I get 5 metal from him, under the current system. Under this new system, I would only get 4. Add in a 20% production bonus, then his total production would be 60 before taxation, which would be 4.8 taxation for me, at 8% (round it to 5). That means, even after taxation, he would still be making 55 metal per tick, more than what he would have under the current system even without being conquered.

SO, even without penalizing the big guys, we have allowed the little guys an edge that they didn’t have before. This will allow them a sizable difference over the current system when it comes to rebuilding their armies to rebel. And as they grow in power, rising through the ranks, the scaling drops their bonus, as they should be more sufficient and capable as they build their own infrastructure. Not only does this give them a military edge, it actually puts their destiny IN THEIR HANDS, rather than simply making it harder for big players to oppress them, which teaches the new guys nothing. And that’s what it takes to make a future elite player; not letting him sit and not be attacked because the big guys just don’t want to, but instead getting the new player into the thick of the action as fast as possible (yet not having this “get into the fight” bonus of sorts apply to the big guys who are already in the fight).

And as an added bonus, this opposite direction scaling means that when a big player conquers another big player, the scales are all pointing towards a low taxation (no production bonus for a high ranking player getting conquered, and the high ranking conquering player being in a low % taxation bracket). This also lines up nicely with the increases in crystal/relic bonuses, as you wouldn’t be giving the conqueror a big crystal AND a big taxation increase.

SO.

Teal Deer version, the BD staff is in fact trying to cater to the newer players, as they should, since new blood is essential to keeping any game running for a long, happy lifetime of awesome play. However, they must do this in a way that allows the established players to play at the level they always have, and making the new players rise to the occasion to join the ranks of the upper group. By using a scaled system for both taxation and production, we can give the little guys and the rising stars an edge in all aspects of the game, while neither decreasing nor severely affecting the gameplay of the big guys. In this way, we can make the game better for all players involved.

And as for the taxation cap, well, see all of the above post dealing with “improving the little guys” via “hampering the big guys.”

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:47 am 
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I dont agree with the taxation cap


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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:20 am 
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i like the worker thought.. cause they are willing to drop the cap of that and make a little change..

.75 per conquer is not bad at all.. ill take that.


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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:27 am 
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Well... I just say that I fully agree with AFKeeker. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:39 am 
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Peikko wrote:
Well... I just say that I fully agree with AFKeeker. ;)


You actually read that? :o

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:51 am 
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I would encourage you to read it too, apollo.

Andrew, pending your decision of course, I could post that into a new thread, in the suggestions section, to see if we can get a little more community feedback on my specific proposal.

That is, if the staff would even consider something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Changes - What do YOU think?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:14 am 
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just keep the normal tax and chance the workers back ( 50 wokers per 24 ticks is low )


you dont wanne burn this game whit one update right?

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