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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:31 am 
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Xeru wrote:
In regards to your last post, I feel that you didn't even bother to read this. Basically, if you cede homosexuals the right to marry, it turns into a slippery slope.


It's not what giving homosexuals the right to marry that's the problem. It's what giving homosexuals the right to marry represents. It represents that our society has become one that supports and tolerates something that is against biology, against the fundamental parts of being a human, tolerates something that natural selection has weeded out a long time ago and for good reason, tolerates something that is, on all levels, wrong.

natural selection didn't, by any means, weed out homosexuality.

There are homos in the past, and there are homos in the future. The only difference is that they openly express their gender to some point and stop denying their true selves.

and if u're talking about a man must be with a woman, that's not human way of thinking, that's a beast's way of thinking. Marriage => Reproduction => Has to be between man and woman.

We have a heart too, and that means it doesn't matter if it's a guy or a woman, if I love him, and he loves me, that is enough.
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I am not religious. But I will not tolerate something that runs contrary to the basic functions to the human race. If we endorse homosexuality, we open the freedom to bestiality, to polygamy, to incest. THAT is UNTHINKABLE. The legalization of same-sex marriage will be used as precedence to legalize marriage in that respect, and so, it follows logically, if you advocate for same-sex marriage, you advocate for polygamy, for beastiality, for incest legalization. Do you really?

yes, if u have read the incest thread.

I openly support for any kind of love, no matter who or even wat both parties are, as long as the involved parties truly love each other.
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Violence from religious group follows.

Right... so becuz it will create violence from religious group, it must be banned.

Let's ban Muslim, cuz it creates violence.
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Aister, you miss an ultimate question. Why do homosexuals fight for the right to marry? Because they want to force themselves unto society.

tl;dr, my main arguments
Slippery Slope
Society is not prepared to accept homosexuals, and the legalization of marriage will allow homosexuals to force themselves onto society.
Heck, it's just wrong.

they don't force themselves into society, they are already in the society.

allowing same sex marriage won't do anything. It's just legalized something that is already there. As I said, if they want to cuddle in public, they can always do that, with or without the legalize. Cuz the law didn't ban cuddling in public, did it? And if they don't want to do that, that's becuz they don't want to, not becuz the same sex marriage is not allowed.

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:36 am 
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whoops I missed this.

Quite frankly, I see this argument as being incredibly redundant. Homosexuality is unnatural, and quite frankly, everybody knows that marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a weak argument, I know, but I really don't see any denying that point! Marriage is between a man and his wife. Everybody freaking knows that.

I talked about religious groups because marriage is, fundamentally, a religious act. Doing something to marriage that would earn the ire of the religious groups that started it is unthinkable. It's a bit like inviting me into your house, and then watch me *CENSORED* over your carpet.

You repeatedly state that allowing same sex marriage won't do anything. Then I don't see why you want to legalize it. The threat of civil unrest is very real, even if you disagree with my ideological beliefs. Why take such an unnecessary risk?

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:03 am 
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alright because i am quite disgusted by XERU i just have to post on this

you are constantly trying to say that just because homosexuals are different you do not want them into society. fact is homosexuality is not a choice and not something that can be helped it's just who they are. Now as America we stand with EQAUAL RIGHTS FOR all not equal rights for all excluding gays, not equal rights for all excluding blacks, jews, hispanics ect.
obviously you just dont know any gay people Xeru, cuz if you did you'd realize overall they are normal people that walk talk laugh lean, like a normal person. So what if a girl falls in love with a girl, so what if a guy falls in love with a guy. It's no concern to us and you dont see gays going up to straight people saying that them kissing is disgusting so what gives us the right?

the Fact is we are all humans and the fact that people are catagorized by majority, minority, different, same, just completely sickens me there's only 1 thing that matters and that is they are people, we are people, and you are a person (i think) and 1 thing about people is love is a big thing that makes us who we are and every1 is entitled to that

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:16 am 
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lilconqueror wrote:
obviously you just dont know any gay people Xeru
nope he does, or maybe he does but didn't notice
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what if a girl falls in love with a girl
a certain person were left out, sr but I had to do it :D

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:20 am 
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Xeru wrote:
whoops I missed this.

Quite frankly, I see this argument as being incredibly redundant. Homosexuality is unnatural, and quite frankly, everybody knows that marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a weak argument, I know, but I really don't see any denying that point! Marriage is between a man and his wife. Everybody freaking knows that.

I talked about religious groups because marriage is, fundamentally, a religious act. Doing something to marriage that would earn the ire of the religious groups that started it is unthinkable. It's a bit like inviting me into your house, and then watch me *CENSORED* over your carpet.

You repeatedly state that allowing same sex marriage won't do anything. Then I don't see why you want to legalize it. The threat of civil unrest is very real, even if you disagree with my ideological beliefs. Why take such an unnecessary risk?


That all depends which country you are from.. Here in Holland marriage is no longer for the church only. You can get married for the church where you are blessed by.. you know, church people. It counts as one of the 7 holy things (damn I'm bad at finding words at the moment). However you can also get married for the law, where you do not necessarily have to do it in church and you are registered as married by law.

Now, my view on this subject is that same-sex marriage should be allowed. Why? Because I believe homosexuality and heterosexuality are two sides of the same coin, as is bi-sexuality. Same-sex marriage is in my eyes no different than heterosexual marriage. Both marriages are between two consenting adults who want to get married to show their love to each other.

Furthermore, I dislike the use of the word unnatural. According to the definition of unnatural, anything not made by, existing in, or expected in the universe, is unnatural. Unnatural is something that cannot be created by nature. As homosexuals exist, they are by definition natural.

Therefore I would like to ask you to rephrase that.

After re-reading what you wrote I believe you are unable to, so far, seperate state and faith. The seperation of state and faith leads to the fact that marriage is no longer seen as simply something of religious groups, as there are many laws that are relevant to married couples only and therefore it simply can not be seen as something of the religious groups.

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:59 am 
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lilconqueror wrote:
alright because i am quite disgusted by XERU i just have to post on this

you are constantly trying to say that just because homosexuals are different you do not want them into society. fact is homosexuality is not a choice and not something that can be helped it's just who they are. Now as America we stand with EQAUAL RIGHTS FOR all not equal rights for all excluding gays, not equal rights for all excluding blacks, jews, hispanics ect.
obviously you just dont know any gay people Xeru, cuz if you did you'd realize overall they are normal people that walk talk laugh lean, like a normal person. So what if a girl falls in love with a girl, so what if a guy falls in love with a guy. It's no concern to us and you dont see gays going up to straight people saying that them kissing is disgusting so what gives us the right?

the Fact is we are all humans and the fact that people are catagorized by majority, minority, different, same, just completely sickens me there's only 1 thing that matters and that is they are people, we are people, and you are a person (i think) and 1 thing about people is love is a big thing that makes us who we are and every1 is entitled to that
EQAUAL RIGHTS FOR all

lol.

I found your post rather funny with its plethora of unsubstantiated claims. Whether or not I know any gay people in real life is highly irrelevant to this discussion. I don't see gays going up to straight people saying anything, nor do I believe that straight people should do the same to gays. However, I do believe that "EQAUAL RIGHTS FOR all" hits a brick wall when it comes to gay marriage. I think I've listed my points out fairly in the arguments before, so I don't see a point in reiterating them. One thing you seem to be sold on is this "EQAUAL RIGHTS" thingy though, and I'm not sure I buy that. At a glance, America does seem to strive for equal rights, on the basis that the rights of one do not harm the society as a whole. For this reason, gays should not be privy to the same facilities that normal people are. As I've stated earlier, it flies in the face of religious groups that marriage is based around in the first place, causes civil unrest, is fundamentally incorrect in that marriage provides benefit from state and thus from taxpayers money, taxpayers who do not support gay marriage, and is a slippery slope.

Actually, I even stated blatantly "here are the reasons why gays to not receive equal treatment". For your benefit, I've copied it below. Read. Comprehend.

Quote:
There are several reasons why they shouldn't receive equal treatment.

The first is that while everyone accepts heterosexual marriage, the majority do not accept homosexual marriage. Seeing as marriage provides benefits from the state, and the state's money is from the people, the majority of people is then forced to give up money to the state to support something that the people do not support.

The second is that allowing homosexual marriage fundamentally alters our culture in a way that does not reflect the culture of the majority, and thus the culture that should prevail.


Milanos wrote:
Xeru wrote:
whoops I missed this.

Quite frankly, I see this argument as being incredibly redundant. Homosexuality is unnatural, and quite frankly, everybody knows that marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a weak argument, I know, but I really don't see any denying that point! Marriage is between a man and his wife. Everybody freaking knows that.

I talked about religious groups because marriage is, fundamentally, a religious act. Doing something to marriage that would earn the ire of the religious groups that started it is unthinkable. It's a bit like inviting me into your house, and then watch me *CENSORED* over your carpet.

You repeatedly state that allowing same sex marriage won't do anything. Then I don't see why you want to legalize it. The threat of civil unrest is very real, even if you disagree with my ideological beliefs. Why take such an unnecessary risk?


That all depends which country you are from.. Here in Holland marriage is no longer for the church only. You can get married for the church where you are blessed by.. you know, church people. It counts as one of the 7 holy things (damn I'm bad at finding words at the moment). However you can also get married for the law, where you do not necessarily have to do it in church and you are registered as married by law.

Now, my view on this subject is that same-sex marriage should be allowed. Why? Because I believe homosexuality and heterosexuality are two sides of the same coin, as is bi-sexuality. Same-sex marriage is in my eyes no different than heterosexual marriage. Both marriages are between two consenting adults who want to get married to show their love to each other.

Furthermore, I dislike the use of the word unnatural. According to the definition of unnatural, anything not made by, existing in, or expected in the universe, is unnatural. Unnatural is something that cannot be created by nature. As homosexuals exist, they are by definition natural.

Therefore I would like to ask you to rephrase that.

After re-reading what you wrote I believe you are unable to, so far, seperate state and faith. The seperation of state and faith leads to the fact that marriage is no longer seen as simply something of religious groups, as there are many laws that are relevant to married couples only and therefore it simply can not be seen as something of the religious groups.
Your first paragraph isn't entirely relevant to the topic, but does address something interesting about same-sex marriage. There seems to be two schools of thoughts on marriage--state or religious. I believe that in America, it is both, as a priest is still required to marry the two people, and because marriage begets benefit from state.

As a religious act: Same-sex marriage is obviously wrong. The DOMINANT religion in the states will not abide by this, and this will cause a great deal of trouble for no gain.
As a legal act: Marriage provides benefits from state. As stated, these benefits come from taxpayers' money. It is immoral for taxpayers to be forced to pay taxes, some of which go towards sponsoring an act that MOST of them do not condone.

Same-sex 'marriage' and normal marriage are two different things entirely (yeah, my use of the word normal is mostly to get on your nerves). One is an act that begets many problems to society, as I've stated. The other is not. Until those problems have been refuted, I view these arguments as unsubstantiated.

I enjoy my use of the word natural immensely. Here, it refers to the fact that humans are born to be heterosexuals, and homosexuals are, like the cripple you have previously mentioned, deformed. I don't call a baby without limbs natural. And once again, we as a society have always aimed to correct these unfortunate deformities. However, while we can give the cripple a prosthetic limb, we cannot (should not?) change the sexual orientation of the homosexual. Hence, it is an unnatural thing that we have to put up with. I also fail to see what relation my terminology has with the argument at hand. Address the points please. :)

Your last paragraph is actually answered fairly well by the first paragraph in my reply to your post. I'm amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:09 am 
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i'll answer you're reply to what you said about my post. to back a little bit farther you're saying that 2 guys/girls cuddling together is an indecencey and people dont want to see that? lol ok lets also take out all the ugly people because no1 would want to see that either right? As far as religion i'm not even going to get started because my great despise for it can get incredibly harsh and i'd make a lot of people mad and probly end up getting banned for my brutality for it. But the fact is america is based on equal rights for all people and that's what we need to abide by and having 2 gay people out on the streets making out is no more disturbing than 2 extremely ugly people making out, but 1 of them is more frowned upon than the other in which case it's nearly the same thing as far as where your argument is going with this

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:52 pm 
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time for my 2 cents.

in my honest opinion, homosexuality doesn't have any rights to acquire. fighting for rights would imply they're barred from doing anything the majority can, which they're not.

are they segregated? no.

are they not allowed to hold certain jobs? no.

can they be married? yes. illegal or not if i wanted to i could grab a man/woman and get married right here in tennessee.

the "MUH EQUAL RIGHTS" crowd is a vocal minority hell bent on every bit of normalcy us non-*CENSORED* gay/les/bi people have.

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:51 pm 
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lilconqueror wrote:
i'll answer you're reply to what you said about my post. to back a little bit farther you're saying that 2 guys/girls cuddling together is an indecencey and people dont want to see that? lol ok lets also take out all the ugly people because no1 would want to see that either right? As far as religion i'm not even going to get started because my great despise for it can get incredibly harsh and i'd make a lot of people mad and probly end up getting banned for my brutality for it. But the fact is america is based on equal rights for all people and that's what we need to abide by and having 2 gay people out on the streets making out is no more disturbing than 2 extremely ugly people making out, but 1 of them is more frowned upon than the other in which case it's nearly the same thing as far as where your argument is going with this
Good lord your spelling makes my eyes hurt.

I really can't manage to make myself take anything you say seriously after your rant about religion. Relax. Calm down. Stop flattering yourself--you couldn't offend a baby if you tried. You're not brutal; you're immature with a craving for attention. You're not notorious--you're an idiot. Just stop.

(Yeah, I was laughing while typing the last paragraph. Still am.)

You keep using the blanket statement that american is based on equal rights for all. I beg you to consider the arguments I've put forward in a critical manner and respond to the arguments. There are reasons that gay marriage is not yet legal. Here they are. What are your replies to them? And I swear, the intelligence of debates drops substantially whenever you enter them.

Tenkai wrote:
time for my 2 cents.

in my honest opinion, homosexuality doesn't have any rights to acquire. fighting for rights would imply they're barred from doing anything the majority can, which they're not.

are they segregated? no.

are they not allowed to hold certain jobs? no.

can they be married? yes. illegal or not if i wanted to i could grab a man/woman and get married right here in tennessee.

the "MUH EQUAL RIGHTS" crowd is a vocal minority hell bent on every bit of normalcy us non-*CENSORED* gay/les/bi people have.
You seem to be very much missing the point of the debate. Same-sex marriage is not legal in most states. The debate is to examine whether or not it should be.

Milan/Aister come back ;_;

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Take it easy guys. If you cannot debate without resorting to petty namecalling, then you should probably just not debate.

Let's please mind our manners from now on, and act a little mature, mkay? :geek:

Thanks!

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