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what are you
for 64%  64%  [ 39 ]
against 28%  28%  [ 17 ]
undecided 8%  8%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 61
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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:37 pm 
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excellent, because you are angry and emotional,

Nope. Because I would rather money not be spent on him to live a fairly decent life. There is evidence that he killed all of those people and he openly admits it.

If I was in charge, he'd be dead and the money that could have been spent on him for the rest of his life would have been spent on people who deserve it.

I'm using logic, not emotions.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Diazepam wrote:
If I was in charge, he'd be dead...
I'm using logic, not emotions.


you would kill him on the basis of what exactly? tit for tat? eye for an eye? your sense of justice? ultimately... emotion? if someone kills someone else, the state should kill them. is this your definitive version of justice?

again, you are eroding norway's justice system for your ideal that someone should die.
if they were to change the laws there in norway and allow execution so be it. but they havent.


face it. norway has a lower crime rate than USA, its because their justice system is focused on rehabilitation and there isnt a 'war on drugs'. im saying that it works. that treating prisoners as humans can result in reintegrating them back into society, this might be going off topic from the death penalty thing of this thread but it ties back into it.
sure, brevik shows no remorse nor regret, but that doesnt mean norway should turn its back on a system that works.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:34 pm 
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you would kill him on the basis of what exactly?

Why don't you read what I posted instead of quoting a small part of a sentence? Then maybe you would know what basis I am talking about. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:40 pm 
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mrducky wrote:

face it. norway has a lower crime rate than USA, its because their justice system is focused on rehabilitation and there isnt a 'war on drugs'. im saying that it works. that treating prisoners as humans can result in reintegrating them back into society, this might be going off topic from the death penalty thing of this thread but it ties back into it.
sure, brevik shows no remorse nor regret, but that doesnt mean norway should turn its back on a system that works.

And it has nothing to do with the fact that Norway's education system is better than the U.S.??

You can't just pin one statistic on only one reason. You would have to actually do some research and eliminate all other possible factors first. Also the fact that the Norwegians have a better education means that that fewer people need to turn to crime to survive.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Not to mention drugs and firearms are harder to obtain. That with far less poverty, and generally happier population. The crime rates aren't lower because prison is more fun their than in the USA.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Ducky is right, when the prison system is geared toward rehabilitation, criminals become much better people that can reintegrate back into society. I did tell you this instance of how prison reforms helped in India.

Key is to have a prison system that does not make things worse, but makes things better. So in a society, to lower crime rates if education and standard of living are important factors, then why not spend more money on that, than on killing people in jails?

BTW Norwegian crime rates might be lower because of their lesser population.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:34 pm 
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mfreak wrote:

Key is to have a prison system that does not make things worse, but makes things better. So in a society, to lower crime rates if education and standard of living are important factors, then why not spend more money on that, than on killing people in jails?



You're contradicting yourself. It definitely costs less money to inject someone with a chemical than to feed them for 40 years,provide housing, and spend money on guards. Also rehabilitation only worked for people without life sentences. People who spend their whole life in jail do not contribute. If they don't have a chance to be reinstated in society they should not just be a drain on resources.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:34 pm 
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BTW Norwegian crime rates might be lower because of their lesser population.

I'm sure he was talking about per-head.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Diazepam wrote:
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BTW Norwegian crime rates might be lower because of their lesser population.

I'm sure he was talking about per-head.

Crime rates are crimes per person or something close it's not number of crimes or china would have the highest crime rate

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Quote:
You're contradicting yourself. It definitely costs less money to inject someone with a chemical than to feed them for 40 years,provide housing, and spend money on guards. Also rehabilitation only worked for people without life sentences. People who spend their whole life in jail do not contribute. If they don't have a chance to be reinstated in society they should not just be a drain on resources.


Contradicting myself where? How do you know it costs less? What factors did you take into account when you calculated cost? Did you take into account the appeals process, the retrials, the stays etc? Also more money spent on guards? Given that people on death row are far less than people on regular jail terms, I dont think any extra guards are required. Also, how much significant reduction in cost would you achieve by having capital punishment? People who spend their whole life in Jail do not contribute anything, because the prison system is wrong.

If you read one of my earlier posts, I told you how a max security prison known for notorious criminals in India, turned around and created productive individuals out of notorious murderers and rapists with life sentences. The jail even sells its items on the markets for cheap rates, thereby earning money for the state. And if INDIA can do it, cant the United States or other developed nations that currently have the death penalty?

If you consider only people who can integrate into society and contribute deserve to live, then you would have to kill people that live on welfare, people that have some form of mental or physical disorder that prevents them from integrating into society. These people are all a drain on resources. Lastly I told you already, cost is not a concern. When we can spend on unnecessary weapons, nukes, wars, we can afford to keep a few people alive and rehabilitate them. If only cost is a concern while evaluating life and death, then thats just barbaric and has no place in the 21st century.

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