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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:29 pm 
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No, we are going to address the exploit of sending spam squads on long delay to bank oil however but it's not in this update. It was lowered because the delay feature was brought in to allow alliances to coordinate moves together, 48 ticks was far too long so we lowered it to 24. This also partially addresses the issue of multi nuking and limits it to 2.

To address oil banking(Just spoke to Michael about it this morning about a solution) we're going to make it that if you cancel a squad in the same tick it is sent you get 100% of the oil refunded regardless if delayed or not; If however a tick has passed since you issued the order, regardless if delayed or not you will get no oil back for canceling a squad move/attack. This way you can still cancel and change a squad order in the same tick in case you make a mistake.


I knew it!!

This is ridiculous. The delay feature, is to make the squads not leave the outpost for a certain amount of time. On turning back squads that have NOT travelled we should be getting oil back. All of it. Why is it that this is being considered an exploit in the first place? What is wrong with saving up oil?

Lemme ask you a question, not just about this issue. Why is it that whenever someone comes up with a way to gain resources ingame through legitimate ways, you have to come up with an update that will make that not possible?

I know one of your major criteria when updating battledawn is to force token spending. On the one hand it is perfectly reasonable to do that. But on the other hand, you should be increasing token spending by making the game more interesting. You gotta bring in new features. What you always do, is do the minimal when it comes to adding new features, and then fix a few bugs and restrict resources EVERYTIME. EVERY *CENSORED* TIME!! There is not ONE update where you have actually coded something in that will actually give resources to a player. You always reduce taxation, increase upkeep, increase costs, do everything possible to STOP people from gaining resources and pretty soon the only way that actually will make BD playable will be boosting. And that is what you want.

It just shows a complete lack of vision on your part. Its like you wanna run a scam to suck as much of money out of people as you can, as fast as possible. As long as you have this attitude, am sorry to say BD is NOT gonna grow. The user base will gradually see through your intentions. If you are interested, go to the Strategy and Player made guides and check out one of Kevin's guides, where a new player has made his first post. While appreciating the guide he also noted that this game depends too much on money and therefore he is not interested. Have you thought about how many new customers you might be losing like that? These are things as admins you guys dont have a clue about. Sorry to say that but its true.

BTW this rant is not on the topic of you reducing delay times or whatever. Its about your clear INTENTIONS BEHIND making such a change that gets on my nerves.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:45 pm 
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mfreak wrote:
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No, we are going to address the exploit of sending spam squads on long delay to bank oil however but it's not in this update. It was lowered because the delay feature was brought in to allow alliances to coordinate moves together, 48 ticks was far too long so we lowered it to 24. This also partially addresses the issue of multi nuking and limits it to 2.

To address oil banking(Just spoke to Michael about it this morning about a solution) we're going to make it that if you cancel a squad in the same tick it is sent you get 100% of the oil refunded regardless if delayed or not; If however a tick has passed since you issued the order, regardless if delayed or not you will get no oil back for canceling a squad move/attack. This way you can still cancel and change a squad order in the same tick in case you make a mistake.


I knew it!!

This is ridiculous. The delay feature, is to make the squads not leave the outpost for a certain amount of time. On turning back squads that have NOT travelled we should be getting oil back. All of it. Why is it that this is being considered an exploit in the first place? What is wrong with saving up oil?

The oil cap is there for a reason

Lemme ask you a question, not just about this issue. Why is it that whenever someone comes up with a way to gain resources ingame through legitimate ways, you have to come up with an update that will make that not possible?

Because it is cheating the res cap.
I know one of your major criteria when updating battledawn is to force token spending. On the one hand it is perfectly reasonable to do that. But on the other hand, you should be increasing token spending by making the game more interesting. You gotta bring in new features. What you always do, is do the minimal when it comes to adding new features, and then fix a few bugs and restrict resources EVERYTIME. EVERY *CENSORED* TIME!! There is not ONE update where you have actually coded something in that will actually give resources to a player. You always reduce taxation, increase upkeep, increase costs, do everything possible to STOP people from gaining resources and pretty soon the only way that actually will make BD playable will be boosting. And that is what you want.

Erm, no this was difnatly cheating the rescourse cap, and they are adding cool new toys like waypoints and "Agents"
It just shows a complete lack of vision on your part. Its like you wanna run a scam to suck as much of money out of people as you can, as fast as possible. As long as you have this attitude, am sorry to say BD is NOT gonna grow. The user base will gradually see through your intentions. If you are interested, go to the Strategy and Player made guides and check out one of Kevin's guides, where a new player has made his first post. While appreciating the guide he also noted that this game depends too much on money and therefore he is not interested. Have you thought about how many new customers you might be losing like that? These are things as admins you guys dont have a clue about. Sorry to say that but its true.

Actually Andrew was a very pro player he lead a gamer community to this game and won several times, I dont boost and I love the game and I am rank one on M4 and rank 5 and M1 (alliance) Sure boosting is hard to compete with but its not impossible to beat.

BTW this rant is not on the topic of you reducing delay times or whatever. Its about your clear INTENTIONS BEHIND making such a change that gets on my nerves.


Its not a scam battledawn is game and it needs money to host servers maybe if you did you're part in boosting for BD, BD wouldnt need to implement booster advantages as much (although they arent as bad as you say they are I will admit that they are there)

Just an example at how people win the game without boosting look at willy wonka on M1, he doesnt boost and he is rank 1 with a huge amount of power some boosters cant even reach. The game is about strategy, not boosting although boosting does help(just like it was designed) but it is NOT as overpowered as you pretend it is.

Good day sir.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Quote:
The oil cap is there for a reason


There is a cap on everything. But saving oil is a completely legitimate tactic. Doesnt mean if there is a oil cap, everyone's oil should be maxed out only at 15k. Previously the oil cap was 18k and before than even more. Why were these resources caps reduced in the first place? Force boosting.

You talk as if you are fine with the resource cap. Go on an Earth server and get into a huge war, and you will see how much of oil you need and how you cant play without boosting oil every 12 hours. You gotta look at how a change affects gameplay overall, and not find reasons as to why something was restricted.

Either its cheating the resource cap, or cheating cooldown times or something or the other. There has to be room for people to be innovative. EVERYTHING on battledawn depends on resources. You gotta be able to invent ways of earning them ingame without boosting. Just let me know when you play against me sometime, Ill show you what needing oil really is and THEN you will see why you are wrong.

We all know BD is a game and that it needs money and I am one of the bigger boosters. But the attitude behind making a change in order to earn money makes you feel cheated. You are talking about Willy Wonka being rank 1. He did it by razing a 1000 outposts till now. And gaining workers. Pretty sure that is cheating the resource cap too now isnt it? Cuz he has 4000 workers. So now lets imagine that will be restricted so you cant go beyond 1000 workers. So what will a player like Willy Wonka do, if he isnt boosting? Conquers dont give power and therefore score. Workers will only give limited power since they maybe restricted at 1000. Resource outposts are small in number and give only 0.2 power. The only way to gain rank will be to build up your army. With taxation from conquers reduced and conquers eventually deleting, with low amount of crystals giving less resources, a non booster has absolutely no way to play and get a higher rank. The only thing that will give you any form of income then will be red tokens. Sure encourage spending am not against it. But do it because you have stuff that is interesting implemented. The spy changes are good. But then you had to restrict oil saving. One of the most important activities before war.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:17 pm 
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mfreak wrote:
Quote:
The oil cap is there for a reason


There is a cap on everything. But saving oil is a completely legitimate tactic. Doesnt mean if there is a oil cap, everyone's oil should be maxed out only at 15k. Previously the oil cap was 18k and before than even more. Why were these resources caps reduced in the first place? Force boosting.

You talk as if you are fine with the resource cap. Go on an Earth server and get into a huge war, and you will see how much of oil you need and how you cant play without boosting oil every 12 hours. You gotta look at how a change affects gameplay overall, and not find reasons as to why something was restricted.

Either its cheating the resource cap, or cheating cooldown times or something or the other. There has to be room for people to be innovative. EVERYTHING on battledawn depends on resources. You gotta be able to invent ways of earning them ingame without boosting. Just let me know when you play against me sometime, Ill show you what needing oil really is and THEN you will see why you are wrong.

We all know BD is a game and that it needs money and I am one of the bigger boosters. But the attitude behind making a change in order to earn money makes you feel cheated. You are talking about Willy Wonka being rank 1. He did it by razing a 1000 outposts till now. And gaining workers. Pretty sure that is cheating the resource cap too now isnt it? Cuz he has 4000 workers. So now lets imagine that will be restricted so you cant go beyond 1000 workers. So what will a player like Willy Wonka do, if he isnt boosting? Conquers dont give power and therefore score. Workers will only give limited power since they maybe restricted at 1000. Resource outposts are small in number and give only 0.2 power. The only way to gain rank will be to build up your army. With taxation from conquers reduced and conquers eventually deleting, with low amount of crystals giving less resources, a non booster has absolutely no way to play and get a higher rank. The only thing that will give you any form of income then will be red tokens. Sure encourage spending am not against it. But do it because you have stuff that is interesting implemented. The spy changes are good. But then you had to restrict oil saving. One of the most important activities before war.


I am fine with the oil cap, and ive been in big wars before.. I know you get low after 2 days but working around that and being smart is a big part of the game. I bearly ever boost and im at the top all the time, and I win wars. If you cant be smart with oil, and you cant build a army properly its not my fault or tactisofts for not making it easy enough for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:01 pm 
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mfreak wrote:

I knew it!!

This is ridiculous. The delay feature, is to make the squads not leave the outpost for a certain amount of time. On turning back squads that have NOT travelled we should be getting oil back. All of it. Why is it that this is being considered an exploit in the first place? What is wrong with saving up oil?

Allen, with all due respect. I think the ones who made the game know why it was made. As for what is wrong with saving up oil. That is what the oil reserves are for.

Lemme ask you a question, not just about this issue. Why is it that whenever someone comes up with a way to gain resources ingame through legitimate ways, you have to come up with an update that will make that not possible?

Its not a question if its legitimate ways or not. Its a matter of why it was added and the balance of the game. I know we do some things that are "less popular", but that is because we need to think about the balance of the game, and people saving up huge amounts of oil was not taken into concideration when that balance was made. That is why we need to act.

I know one of your major criteria when updating battledawn is to force token spending. On the one hand it is perfectly reasonable to do that. But on the other hand, you should be increasing token spending by making the game more interesting. You gotta bring in new features. What you always do, is do the minimal when it comes to adding new features, and then fix a few bugs and restrict resources EVERYTIME. EVERY *CENSORED* TIME!! There is not ONE update where you have actually coded something in that will actually give resources to a player. You always reduce taxation, increase upkeep, increase costs, do everything possible to STOP people from gaining resources and pretty soon the only way that actually will make BD playable will be boosting. And that is what you want.

Allen, the reason the amount of resources is lowered is because we want people to be more careful with their units, not thinking "I'll have that army back in 50 ticks anyway with the help of my allies"
Because that is when you have to think tactical, value every unit, think of every step you make.

Those changes got nothing to do with boosting,


It just shows a complete lack of vision on your part. Its like you wanna run a scam to suck as much of money out of people as you can, as fast as possible. As long as you have this attitude, am sorry to say BD is NOT gonna grow. The user base will gradually see through your intentions. If you are interested, go to the Strategy and Player made guides and check out one of Kevin's guides, where a new player has made his first post. While appreciating the guide he also noted that this game depends too much on money and therefore he is not interested. Have you thought about how many new customers you might be losing like that? These are things as admins you guys dont have a clue about. Sorry to say that but its true.


BTW this rant is not on the topic of you reducing delay times or whatever. Its about your clear INTENTIONS BEHIND making such a change that gets on my nerves.

Allen, don't trust "quotes" that have never been said in the first place

mfreak wrote:
Quote:
The oil cap is there for a reason


There is a cap on everything. But saving oil is a completely legitimate tactic. Doesnt mean if there is a oil cap, everyone's oil should be maxed out only at 15k. Previously the oil cap was 18k and before than even more. Why were these resources caps reduced in the first place? Force boosting.

Can you please enlighten me to when it was 18k as I can only recall it being 10k, then increased to 15k?

You talk as if you are fine with the resource cap. Go on an Earth server and get into a huge war, and you will see how much of oil you need and how you cant play without boosting oil every 12 hours. You gotta look at how a change affects gameplay overall, and not find reasons as to why something was restricted.

Allen, the feature was never meant to be used in such a way. Therefore it was always looked on the way we want to look at it. You should look at how this effect the gameplay and only help those who are already the strongest.

Either its cheating the resource cap, or cheating cooldown times or something or the other. There has to be room for people to be innovative. EVERYTHING on battledawn depends on resources. You gotta be able to invent ways of earning them ingame without boosting. Just let me know when you play against me sometime, Ill show you what needing oil really is and THEN you will see why you are wrong.

Funny you should say that, Michael suggested that we were gonna play a round ^,^

I'll give you a heads up when I know when and where, but remember that some of us are a bit rusty, so be gentle ;)


We all know BD is a game and that it needs money and I am one of the bigger boosters. But the attitude behind making a change in order to earn money makes you feel cheated. You are talking about Willy Wonka being rank 1. He did it by razing a 1000 outposts till now. And gaining workers. Pretty sure that is cheating the resource cap too now isnt it? Cuz he has 4000 workers. So now lets imagine that will be restricted so you cant go beyond 1000 workers. So what will a player like Willy Wonka do, if he isnt boosting? Conquers dont give power and therefore score. Workers will only give limited power since they maybe restricted at 1000. Resource outposts are small in number and give only 0.2 power. The only way to gain rank will be to build up your army. With taxation from conquers reduced and conquers eventually deleting, with low amount of crystals giving less resources, a non booster has absolutely no way to play and get a higher rank. The only thing that will give you any form of income then will be red tokens. Sure encourage spending am not against it. But do it because you have stuff that is interesting implemented. The spy changes are good. But then you had to restrict oil saving. One of the most important activities before war.

As I've said a couple times before. It is not about the money, but about the balance and not letting those who are already have the power and advantage get a even larger one.

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http://www.battledawn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=15076
Thank you developers
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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Sigh, mfreak, do I have to re-mention how other games make money? I think I've said this everytimes people raging about how BD try to make people boost.

Look, I agree that these updates do make people have the urge to boost more. But do we need to boost that much? Some people simply didn't boost and get a ridiculous power, so high that I'm starting to suspect them, hm....

But mfreak, if they're trying to get ppl to boost, they wouldn't implement the long lvl 4 and lvl 5 structures building time and they wouldn't block the trade of boosted resources. Those updates are clearly, completely against boosters, but why did they do that? Simply because they want us all to enjoy the game.

I don't know how much income do BD staffs get each eras but seeing the ads (actually I can't since I boosted) I could say that it's getting pretty low. So wat hurt if an update or two focus on getting more people to boost? However that is not the case here.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:05 pm 
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it all about the money with you all

i'll been playing battle down sic you had ONLY earth 1 in place i'll seen many many updata over the year ALOT of them bad some of them good

out of the 7 listed that i seen on page one 2 of the 7 are BAD it will only make this game hard to play and harder for new member to come join the game

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:22 pm 
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hile633 wrote:
it all about the money with you all

i'll been playing battle down sic you had ONLY earth 1 in place i'll seen many many updata over the year ALOT of them bad some of them good

out of the 7 listed that i seen on page one 2 of the 7 are BAD it will only make this game hard to play and harder for new member to come join the game

Can I ask what the 2 bad ones are?
Max delay of squads & missles: 24 ticks and Admin colony security updates?
Those are the only two I can think of that you might say make it "harder", but both are still necessary.

But to be honest, few new players have the need to stock up more oil then the cap, and cheat, so I think those new players will do just fine ^,^

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http://www.battledawn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=15076
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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:24 pm 
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You want people to be more careful with their units? Seriously? Why?


The problems that the Development team is creating are building upon themselves.

If you restrict free resources across the game you are actually helping boosters have to use less real cash. They have less opposition to fight, less to do. Therefore they spend less. By adding advertising and forcing people to boost, many will quit rather than actually spend money. This reduces the customer base, reducing the # of players, reducing the amount of resources a booster needs to win the game.

You are going in the complete opposite direction than you should be.

More resources = more battles = more competition = more fun = more cash for the admins...

IT IS A GAME!!! Stop FORCING people to do things... That is what WORK is for... Then we come home to have fun, and you are seriously cutting back on everything that made this game interesting and fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Updates, Oct 8th
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:27 pm 
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sc2zollman wrote:
Is the g3 world that is reseting today with this update going to have the conqures=no power thing?


All worlds have had that since the last update a couple weeks ago.

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