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 Post subject: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:57 pm 
Sergeant
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Well, most of you don't know me, but I've been working for Battle Dawn as a forum moderator for-- 3 years. My leave is based on a certain incident in our Skype chat, which I won't re-enact. Anyways, out of all that, I've learned something, and it is with a sorrow I must say this, that my time here has been wasted, not of which I can say was truly that memorable. I won't induce such "disappointment" on certain people, but some of the morals of in-game matters, I do deeply stress of.

Before I get into some matters that grieved me; I'll say my farewells to some extraordinary people I've met in game and out.

Evan
Gaurav
Kane
Simmen (sorry about your demotion)
Zal
Seth
Zudamar
Buford
Ryan (Hero)
Panda
Gene Wilder
Shion (Both male and female)
Steven
Peter
Ryuuzaki
Melfice
Routhy
Garry (Day of Darkness)
Joe
Andrew
Alexander
Sopal (Still deciding if you are real)



I entered Battle Dawn as a mod with ideas, some of which effected, and some of which disappointed. Over the course of years, I did, even if no one noticed, try to do things differently and make the Community a better feature of the game. I, sad to state, have failed in my own terms, and my own expectations. True, BD was a simple side-art for my life, but in terms, a lot of things can be better with the proper exertion.

One of these matters is my malcontent for Sub-Alliance and the farming they often ensure. Most of you have seen them, but in my crazy little head, when ever I see the Subs conquered for resources by their main alliance, I immediately believe them as cheap tactics/illegal in game.

Most of you know the Protocols about farming, and its "gray area" on how it works. But let me enlighten you, because of an unfinished chat with Andrew, I really do understand "How it works", and yes, this was based on my dismissal.


{Snippet of Conversation: Edited for Grammar and Censorment}

[10:58:55 AM | Edited 10:59:53 AM] Andrew: A sub alliance being conquered by the main alliance is acceptable so long as the players are actually playing the game. It's a really dishonorable and pathetic excuse as a viable tactic I agree but it's not a banable offense unless the players are doing nothing but playing for the sole benefit of their conqueror and their conqueror asked them to join the world for that sole purpose.

[10:59:08 AM] Venstro: What?

[10:59:13 AM] Andrew: [Censored Named] said that he doesn't like sub alliances, that is WHY he has them conquered.

[10:59:16 AM] Venstro: You're saying that's legal?

[10:59:54 AM] Venstro: Wait, so you're saying, pretty much Farms can go randomly spy enemies of their Farmers anytime they want?

[11:00:12 AM] Andrew: I added one other point above*

[11:00:25 AM] Venstro: But thats the sole purpose.

[11:00:35 AM] Venstro: The sole purpose is always to help the main.

[11:00:39 AM] Andrew: [10:59 AM] Andrew: conqueror asked them to join the world for that sole purpose.

[11:00:42 AM] Venstro: He wasn't teaching his newbs or anything

[11:01:00 AM] Venstro: [Censored Name] was using his subs as resources?

[11:01:23 AM] Venstro: By joining a sub, it automatically excludes them from being banned for farming?

[11:02:12 AM] Andrew: If the "farms" listen only to the main and don't make any decisions for themselves and just wait to be told what to do by their conquerors or their alliance then that is breaking the rules. If they agree to remain conquered to provide taxation to the main and build themselves up while helping out the main alliance that is OK.
[11:02:34 AM] Andrew: I'm still amazed that anyone WANTS to do this but people do.

[11:02:34 AM] Venstro: That's extremely vague.

[11:02:41 AM] Venstro: Do you know how vague that is?

[11:02:46 AM] Andrew: Of course it is, it has to be because this is an extremely grey area

[11:03:01 AM] Venstro: Being Told and Helping is exactly the same.

[11:03:02 AM] Andrew: You can't have a black and white rule to govern a grey area

[11:03:10 AM] Venstro: Yeah you can

[11:03:22 AM] Venstro: How about; "Subs shouldn't be used as taxation"

[11:03:27 AM] Andrew: No it's not, there is a difference, you just hate this tactic and therefor will look for any loophole in what I am saying in order to get them banned.

[11:03:43 AM] Venstro: Look, I don't even know who [CENSORED] is.

[11:03:50 AM] Venstro: [CENSORED] in [CENSORED]

[11:03:56 AM] Venstro: I don't want them to get banned

[11:04:04 AM] Andrew: Really?

[11:04:07 AM] Venstro: Yes.

[11:04:14 AM] Venstro: Yes, I don't want [CENSOED] to get banned.

[11:04:22 AM] Venstro: I want that concept to get banned.

[11:04:48 AM] Venstro: For heavens sake, I don't even play anymore! Why the hell would I care what players did ingame unless I really felt strongly about an issue.

[11:05:23 AM] Venstro: And I presume you're going to find a quote to prove me wrong, and let me just say, you won't find any.

[11:05:31 AM] Andrew: :D

[11:05:39 AM] Venstro: Try it :D

[11:05:50 AM] Andrew: I have to go actually so I'll leave it at that.

[11:06:02 AM] Andrew: Besides I'm done talking to you and now that you are no longer a mod I'll be removing you from my list.

[11:06:10 AM] Venstro: Wait, what?

[11:06:13 AM] Andrew: Goodbye

[11:06:15 AM] Venstro: You disagree with what I just said?

[11:06:35 AM] Andrew: No I have to go, I've explained the situations that do and do not get you banned

[11:06:37 AM] Andrew: You do with it as you please.

[11:06:53 AM] Venstro: *sigh*


--------------------------------------------------------


Do not inquire who the censored names represent, I don't want any 3rd Party names to be controversial in this case. Pretend the Censored names represent anyone who uses subs just for taxation. No way am I referring to Andrew as the root problem here, it's just the certain problem that is endured in our community can be fixed.

So, if you don't want understand what's being said from the Skype Chat, let me evaluate. We were talking about how sub-alliance farming and farming are thought of in BD. You can see from that chat why I disprove of Sub-Alliances in context of farming.

In my opinion, Sub-Alliances can be really helpful. They can teach new players, who would rather in-game, be conquered during the beginning, learn the game. It makes developing players more likely to actually start playing instead of stay conquered all round.

The problem, however, is when main alliances use their sub alliances as farm food, as taxation, and only use them to endure mischief on the main alliance's opponents. Now, come on, how the hell does that seem fair to anyone? I don't think theres any gray line there, there's a bold, and clear problem there. "Farmers" can use their "pigs" for food for themselves and then sell them for money? There is, of course, the main problem in this matter. What is often ignored is that new players are often these "pigs", and to endure the game in such a perspective is incredibly demeaning to our game's community.

That brings us to another issue, new player's perspective of the game. The reason why our community is so inactive is because there are few new players that enter the game. The players that use the forums in frequent notions are usually the ones that are considered to have won a round or two. Most new players who enter the game, just leave the game in 1-2 days, after conquered. Sure, that's a common knowledge, but why? Shouldn't we able to actually "do" something about it? Sure, I made Adopt-A-Newb, but in my opinion, the concepts are good, but the activity and exertion of initiating it in-game is not.

If you can see the pattern, you'd know that this all concludes in inactivity. Yes, our community is indeed inactive, in which moderators are more active then the actual members. In total, this makes our community poor, and ready to dwindle. A Community should be the most important thing in the game, and here, it is obviously not.

So, how do you fix this? Well I don't know. I don't know how one can fix mass farming from main alliances, or how to get new players in anymore. In partial honesty, that's why I think me being a mod was completely useless, I tried, but I pretty much failed at my job, and thats kind of the point of this post, to apologize.

"I'm sorry"

Anyways, all said and done, this will probably be the last post I "write", and I do hope some of you are effected by it. I don't care "how" or "why", but that is it.

Andrew, since you felt the need to ignore my last words, here they are, bud. I already had your last word, which was "Good Bye", so you don't need to pursue this post anymore. No, I'm not seeking retribution or redemption, nor am I explaining anything. It's your choice on how you run mods, boss.

Anyways, I'm going to become an astronaut with my free time,
Peace Out

Venstro






"Topic locking is a last resort always. A good community should have no locked posts. If a member understands that the topic is not interesting, then he'll stop spamming. Inactive posts should simply fade into the history, and not left locked."


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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:07 pm 
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sad to see u leave Ven =/
it's not ur fault i got demoted, we got a bit carryed away, but yeah, i see the problem with sub farming also, even jsut conquering their sub and the sub letting them coqnuering them of own free will is to me sub farming

good luck being an astronaut hope u will watch down over us :)

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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:02 pm 
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Venstro I believe in what you say is true. And sub-alliances have no real point. For one, they won't ever be the top alliance becuase they are a sub.Two they always answer to the main and hardly get to do what they want. And finally if an alliacne has to make a sub, then that means that they are too weak to defend them self. Personally, when an alliance is made, it should be the only one of its kind no copies or wanna-be copies.

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THERES' NOTHING LIKE THE ORIGINAL.


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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:32 pm 
Second Lieutenant
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MMM.

I always knew it would come to this.

Whether or not that ban-able.

Its a double standard, that i think will never get fixed in this game.


Bye, Venstro.

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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:04 am 
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The last little white lines, Venstro, has been my primarly discussion point with around 5 moderators for months now. Everyone seems to use the locking of topics as a way to prevent rulebreaking, while in reality, the problem doesn't lie with the topics themself usually -sigh-.



Anyhow, maybe the community should come with anti-subfarming measures...

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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:22 am 
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the last 5 lines are from mods guidelines btw

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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:30 am 
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simmen wrote:
the last 5 lines are from mods guidelines btw



I know, I remember it out of my head. Michael made it for us once if I am correct.


It's unbeliefable Venstro got fired while most mods just take a piss on the guidelines...

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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:35 am 
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I actually love subs lol :P

but I agree sub farming is wrong that should lead to a ban and that should become a new rule

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 Post subject: Re: A Controversial Post: My Farewell
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Sad to see you go. I've just came back and your leaving.

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