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 Post subject: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:21 am 
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I am kinda new here, but have years of turn based strategy.

I am enjoying this game and bought my two sons with me.

I have also decided to support the game to give my boys a better experience and we, after trying some worlds together and myself all worlds alone, started in a new world with the goal to build a strong alliance, not trying to take over the world cause we are new, but trying to leave our mark on this specific world we started together.

We saved the bonus tokens from our achievements and had a good start until the alliance grew strong and we filled the spots left with new and unknown players.

Well, once the alliance was full and our power got noticed, every move I started to increase our domination was misteriously predicted by our enemies. I tested massing and sending private messages and the results told me we had some double agents.

After a while, some of our members got their accounts banned, wich suggests me players having more than one colony and infiltrating enemy alliances to get intel, like army size/setup, strategy and troop positioning.

The thing is I only see the members getting banned, I dont see enemy alliances, greatly favored by their acts getting any punishment.

And it kills the game to me. I am not in condition to be the number one with the team I have, we are not active and skilled and in enough numbers to build a solid and full time aware alliance. But as long as the game is fair, we will be happy with our results.

Will there be, in any time in future, ways for the admnistrators follow the chain of multies to their real source?


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:27 am 
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When multi accounts are banned, ALL associated accounts are banned, including 'main' accounts.

The issue here is that you have second-guessed the reasons for the bans. Just because somebody is a double-agent does not mean that they are a multi account for whoever they are leaking information to. Whatever they were banned for, it must have had nothing to do with your enemies who were harvesting the leaked information if they were not banned.

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Leader of BD's first ever 100k+ alliance. (Sky - 100740 score - M1A2)
E3, M1, M2 and F1 World Admin


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:33 pm 
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Routhy wrote:
When multi accounts are banned, ALL associated accounts are banned, including 'main' accounts.

The issue here is that you have second-guessed the reasons for the bans. Just because somebody is a double-agent does not mean that they are a multi account for whoever they are leaking information to. Whatever they were banned for, it must have had nothing to do with your enemies who were harvesting the leaked information if they were not banned.


As I see, in the short time I have played, double agents pump their score with multi accounts to get recruited by other alliances.

Their goal is to get the information, they work for specific alliances, the ones getting the intel. We have rules being broken and someone being benefited. When they finally got banned, the harm have been done already. And its a big harm: your alliance lose the power and crystals from the multies, you alliance have heavy losses in battle due to the privileged intel, there is no ip connection but there is someone being benefited.

What you said: If they are not punished, they are innocent, is exactly what I am asking for. Thats my question: When all the involved will be punished? Will they ever be? Is there a way to really prevent this?

I have got my own personal answer: Never. The mechanics of this game allow this to happen. Its part of the game. You can call your friend by MSN and ask him to create multi accounts and pass you (by MSN) all intel he can get. Your alliance will be benefited and, since you never talk to your buddy in game, nobody will never know. And once he is discovered, the alliance he belongs to will have less members and power which will benefit you once again.

My own personal solution: I am not going to support this game again, not until I have an alliance full of people I know and trust.


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:39 pm 
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Thats not multi, thats a tactic. multi is 1 player controlling several accounts.
This is a way to gather intel and there are no official rules against it

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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:00 pm 
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simmen wrote:
Thats not multi, thats a tactic. multi is 1 player controlling several accounts.
This is a way to gather intel and there are no official rules against it


I've been hit by a combination of both: an infiltrated multi double agent D<


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:17 pm 
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The multiing is irrelevant - It only takes 1 colony to be a double agent, and leaking info is not against the rules.

We cannot ban somebody just for being associated with a cheater - Banning your enemies because they have benefited from a cheater giving them intel (bearing in mind that intel has nothing to do with multi benefits) would be the same as us banning you for having a cheater in your alliance, and indirectly benefiting from it. In other words, it wouldn't be fair to ban people 'for association' with a cheater.

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Leader of BD's first ever 100k+ alliance. (Sky - 100740 score - M1A2)
E3, M1, M2 and F1 World Admin


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:30 pm 
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Routhy wrote:
The multiing is irrelevant - It only takes 1 colony to be a double agent, and leaking info is not against the rules.

We cannot ban somebody just for being associated with a cheater - Banning your enemies because they have benefited from a cheater giving them intel (bearing in mind that intel has nothing to do with multi benefits) would be the same as us banning you for having a cheater in your alliance, and indirectly benefiting from it. In other words, it wouldn't be fair to ban people 'for association' with a cheater.


I got your point the first time.

Lets see if you get mine. You said to keep in mind that intel has nothing to do with multi benefits. I ask you to consider the benefit the multi achieve by raising score and look like a good candidate.

I told you I am new here and I like this game, so I will adapt.

I will save tokens again and will support the game once I have an alliance full of members I know and trust. To prevent being victm of this combo again.

Just please do not deny the existence of the thing and its awfull effects on the players that enjoy a fair game.


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:26 pm 
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I completely understand your side of this.

Player 'John' makes 5 multis and conquers them to boost his score, his inflated score is the reason why you recruit him.

Player 'Sam' persuades John to leak info on your alliance to him with promise of some kind of payoff (like admission to his alliance)

Player 'John' is banned for owning multi accounts.

You are suggesting that we ban player 'Sam' for having Player John leak info, when player John's position in the alliance was directly caused by the fact that he cheats. My argument is that it is completely unfair for us to ban player 'Sam' because he had absolutely no idea that John was cheating, nor could we have expected him to have known.

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MGH, BYZ, =T=, XOXO, Neko, Meow, CAE, DRAW, ROTR, Sky, EVIL, RAWR, MiG
Leader of BD's first ever 100k+ alliance. (Sky - 100740 score - M1A2)
E3, M1, M2 and F1 World Admin


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:25 am 
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Routhy wrote:
I completely understand your side of this.

Player 'John' makes 5 multis and conquers them to boost his score, his inflated score is the reason why you recruit him.

Player 'Sam' persuades John to leak info on your alliance to him with promise of some kind of payoff (like admission to his alliance)

Player 'John' is banned for owning multi accounts.

You are suggesting that we ban player 'Sam' for having Player John leak info, when player John's position in the alliance was directly caused by the fact that he cheats. My argument is that it is completely unfair for us to ban player 'Sam' because he had absolutely no idea that John was cheating, nor could we have expected him to have known.


Routhy,

What killed the game to me, for a while, was the fact that there is no way to know if 'Sam' asked his buddy 'John' by MSN to cheat his way up in the rank, so he could get admission on big alliances and keep 'Sam' informed.

'Sam' knowing the fact that 'John' would end up being banned, could prepare and attack at this moment to take over the said big alliance. The unaware big and naive alliance would have its power greatly reduced by the banning of 'John' and other multi members.

I am learning fast due the fact I am fighting big and experienced alliances and every trick they do to me is a valuable lesson. Its good to know the dirt tricks not to use them but to not fall for them twice.


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 Post subject: Re: Game killer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:27 pm 
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Unfortunately, there's no way for us to know if Sam planned it via MSN or not, so we can't punish him. Innocent until proven guilty.

But yeah, definetely work at building a team of people you trust, that's the best solution.

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MGH, BYZ, =T=, XOXO, Neko, Meow, CAE, DRAW, ROTR, Sky, EVIL, RAWR, MiG
Leader of BD's first ever 100k+ alliance. (Sky - 100740 score - M1A2)
E3, M1, M2 and F1 World Admin


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