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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:01 am 
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Is our health system private like in the US or nationalized like in the UK?

If it is private then option #2 is really irrelevent as wealth distribution already plays a role in the health system. If it is nationalized then everyone recieves the same standard of treatement anyway unless those with money decide to opt out and go for private treatment elsewhere.

The other issue is that if organs are being bought/sold then this could well lead to a black market. Human trafficking could reach new levels as crime syndicates try to cash in. How far will this go? Biological augmentation?! Nothing is seperate every issue is connected... before you know it our police force could be coming up against an army of SUPER VILLIANS!!! :evil: O.O

JK... option #1 obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:34 am 
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ROFLhuntingJEDI wrote:
Is our health system private like in the US or nationalized like in the UK?

If it is private then option #2 is really irrelevent as wealth distribution already plays a role in the health system. If it is nationalized then everyone recieves the same standard of treatement anyway unless those with money decide to opt out and go for private treatment elsewhere.

The other issue is that if organs are being bought/sold then this could well lead to a black market. Human trafficking could reach new levels as crime syndicates try to cash in. How far will this go? Biological augmentation?! Nothing is seperate every issue is connected... before you know it our police force could be coming up against an army of SUPER VILLIANS!!! :evil: O.O

JK... option #1 obviously.

actually yes, crime control is probably what I'm looking at right now. If the poor is so poor that they need to sell / donate their organs, then why not have it done at an official place, with the right and safe equipments? Not to mention the price will be reasonable and there will be no risk of getting scammed. Banning it will lead to black market, which obviously have non-safe-guaranteed equipments, very cheap price and scams.

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:21 am 
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Well, everyone's going for option #1, so I'll play troll's advocate, and argue for option 2.

If option 1 is chosen, then organs will have to be paid for, but that money will have to come from somewhere, so either it comes from tax/ health insurance increase, (which will make the poor even poorer), or it will be paid for by the recipient, in which case the rich will have the pick of the organs (and again, it'll make the poor even poorer).

Secondly, it's not addressing the real problem, it's just throwing money at it.
There are 3 things that should be done before this is even considered:
    A - Get people to be healthier (lower demand for organs):
    - - - If people think they can live an unhealthy lifestyle, then buy a new organ off a poor person when they've ruined their own, well that's just wrong.

    B - Increase donor awareness and ease (increase supply).
    - - - Most people favour organ donation, but are too lazy to do anything about it. If it's as simple as: "when you got to see a doctor, he asks you if you want to be a donor, you say yes, BAM! it's done", then there would be a lot more donors.

    C - Stem cell research (increase supply).
    - - - If we just grow organs and blood, then this wouldn't even be a problem.

And also consider this trollgument:
People are responsible for their own bodies and health, if someone chooses to lead a lifestyle that destroys their own organs, then that's their fault. The rest of us shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes with increased tax/insurance cost, to buy organs off poor people, neither should we offer up our own body parts for them.
OPTION #2

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:17 am 
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fake wrote:
Well, everyone's going for option #1, so I'll play troll's advocate, and argue for option 2.

If option 1 is chosen, then organs will have to be paid for, but that money will have to come from somewhere, so either it comes from tax/ health insurance increase, (which will make the poor even poorer), or it will be paid for by the recipient, in which case the rich will have the pick of the organs (and again, it'll make the poor even poorer).

Secondly, it's not addressing the real problem, it's just throwing money at it.
There are 3 things that should be done before this is even considered:
    A - Get people to be healthier (lower demand for organs):
    - - - If people think they can live an unhealthy lifestyle, then buy a new organ off a poor person when they've ruined their own, well that's just wrong.

    B - Increase donor awareness and ease (increase supply).
    - - - Most people favour organ donation, but are too lazy to do anything about it. If it's as simple as: "when you got to see a doctor, he asks you if you want to be a donor, you say yes, BAM! it's done", then there would be a lot more donors.

    C - Stem cell research (increase supply).
    - - - If we just grow organs and blood, then this wouldn't even be a problem.

And also consider this trollgument:
People are responsible for their own bodies and health, if someone chooses to lead a lifestyle that destroys their own organs, then that's their fault. The rest of us shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes with increased tax/insurance cost, to buy organs off poor people, neither should we offer up our own body parts for them.
OPTION #2

while it's true that it makes the rich buy off the poor, but wat does it different from the current market that we have?

none is forced to sell their house, no matter how poor they are. Of course when they have nothing left then they will need to sell the house for some money to live for a few more days. But that's better than leaving them to starve right? It's the same with organs, we don't force them to sell their organs, no one does. Whether they sell the organs or not is their own choice.

and not all those who received donated organs ruined their original ones, some have a weak organs at birth, or due to living / working condition, or some are damaged due to unexpected events such as accidents or sickness.

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:58 am 
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aister wrote:
It's the same with organs, we don't force them to sell their organs, no one does. Whether they sell the organs or not is their own choice.


Except you ARE forcing the to pay a higher tax/insurance, because the money to buy these organs has to come from somewhere.

So you're basically taking money from the poor, to buy their organs off them, which essentially means you're just taking their organs with out giving them anything in return.
What kind of society are we, when we treat our poorest citizens as walking organ banks?

This is exactly why no civilised society in the real world has implemented any sort of cash4organs scheme (possibly).

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:25 am 
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fake wrote:
aister wrote:
It's the same with organs, we don't force them to sell their organs, no one does. Whether they sell the organs or not is their own choice.


Except you ARE forcing the to pay a higher tax/insurance, because the money to buy these organs has to come from somewhere.

So you're basically taking money from the poor, to buy their organs off them, which essentially means you're just taking their organs with out giving them anything in return.
What kind of society are we, when we treat our poorest citizens as walking organ banks?

This is exactly why no civilised society in the real world has implemented any sort of cash4organs scheme (possibly).

except u missed that tax is going into healthcare anyway, and there are none stating that it will raise the tax. Plus, the tax is based on the income, u make more, u pay more, u make less, u pay less. Hence, even if we do raise the tax, the one who lose the most is the rich ones. Not to mention, the poor will have be able to have an organ transplant for free or cheaper price easily.

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:20 am 
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Any tax increase will effect the poor more than the rich though, because they have less disposable income to begin with.

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:14 am 
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fake wrote:
Any tax increase will effect the poor more than the rich though, because they have less disposable income to begin with.


go and take all ppl agrees on Option 2... Im with you ;)

respect for poor ( like me ) :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Option 2.

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 Post subject: Re: BD SpamMers Country - 2nd Issue
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:25 am 
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Voting time ended

Issue 1 Result:

BD SpamMers was reclassified from "Scandinavian Liberal Paradise" to "Iron Fist Socialists".
Following new legislation in BD SpamMers, elections have been outlawed.

Note: Iron Fist Socialists is the game's equivalent to real life's Communism Dictatorship

Current situation
Spoiler:
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------------------------------

Issue 2 Vote tally:

Soirem voted for 1
Tenkai voted for 1
Niazi voted for 2
Sith voted for 1 (I'll call u Sith from now on)
fake voted for 2
LightIce voted for 2

Seeing as we have a draw, I'll take it upon myself to decide the answer :lol: and it'll be 1

------------------------------

Issue 3:

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