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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:29 am 
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Well guys there has certainly been a lot of evidence and opinions about this incident that the admins could use when investigating the event. Therefore with our usual forum policy that any appeals about people being banned or requesting to be banned are not hosted on the forum publicly but should be private between the admin and player I need to lock this thread before it becomes out of control and ruins the spirit of the championship era.

I will show this forum thread to the admins to help them decide the result of their investigation as I believe some very useful evidence has been submitted here.

However I must lock the topic now and if you have any questions about why I have locked the topic feel free to send me a message.

Thank you for pointing this out to us however in the future it would be best to report it to the admin in game as it is usually dealt with more efficiently.

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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:50 am 
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anthonymn wrote:
N:10212 E:15209‏


‎4‎:‎38‎ ‎PM If a colony is only built just to penetrate enemy grounds it is abusing game mechanics. This is the instance I have reported to both admins in game and on Skype. I have not received a response so I will continue making sure all is informed of this cheating. While I know Rania and Admin Ilona has a close relationship I hope fair play will prevail.

People has been banned in the past. Providing a bridge where there would be none is not fair game play. This happened with avi , jd against Kane and Juno. They planted a colony because they could not get into Na no other way. The colony was banned. It is abuse of game mechanics. If you need me to search for era let me know.‏


It was my alliance who did that. Almost 3 years ago. We lost already our entire network and Kane was on the way to us in Alaska and has already reached greenland ...
We asked 2 friends of us to place a colony. 1 in SA, the other one in Africa in the middle of the GIFT hive. Within seconds, we kicked 2 out and got the new members in, jumped form colony to colony and landed with around 180 squads in their hive.

Then, our member in SA was about to get conquered by an enemy sub. We were afraid that they'll relocate him and we had no way to go back into SA. We kicked him and Andrei launched a squad to him, so we could get him back later on. Funnily, the guy just got a crystal at that very moment.

Seth banned him and Andrei, who had like 80% of our army for farming and abusing game mechanics.

The era was over for us. I remember that I was that angry that I never logged into it again.
One month later, I became admin and the game got changed so you can't gate into a new member colony for the first 24 hours

Thats the story of the trojan horse of BD .....

Now to the current situation:

1. when I ban the colony, for what shall I ban it. For being a colony? For joining an alliance? Nothing of it is banable
2. When I ban the colony, the result is still the same and they can send their squads to a banned member instead of a not banned member
3. When I punish the team, for what should I do it? For having a new member? Whom should I punish? The leader for sending out an invitation?

There is absolutely no reason to ban/punish or even interfere on this. They used a tactic that the game provides them.
In this case, there is not even a way to change the game mechanics so that it can't happen again.

I will open this thread again, so you can discuss about it
Cheers!

PS. About the subject of this thread: It happened as I was out with friends on a friday night. I did not became quiet at all


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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:36 am 
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on skype earlier this era you said ilona making a colony for the sole purpose of spamming for an alliance is wrong, how is this no different? it is abusing the system and having someone make an account. really dont know why i spend money on this game again.

[7/7/2014 1:02:32 AM] no prisoners: so i can tell a friend to come to server and build me 50 op's to fill up SA?
[7/7/2014 1:03:57 AM] Ilona: the one who built was actively playing since tick 1, and is also located in africa. Who am i to tell him not going for the 50 nukes achievement or whatever he wants?
[7/7/2014 1:04:31 AM] Ilona: to your question: Yes, when they build now, at tick 833, i would see it different
[7/7/2014 1:04:39 AM] no prisoners: lol why
[7/7/2014 1:04:45 AM] no prisoners: doesnt matter
[7/7/2014 1:04:49 AM] no prisoners: ticks
[7/7/2014 1:05:11 AM] no prisoners: and it was 3 pple
[7/7/2014 1:05:15 AM] no prisoners: not 1
[7/7/2014 1:05:41 AM] Ilona: it matters a lot. Same as i ban spammers when they build some ticks ago and start spamming now, but i wouldn't ban a player who was all the time active anyway and decide for spamming now

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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:05 am 
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the difference is here:

Quote:
2.2.4 Bullying: Use Services in a manner disturbing, harassing or defaming to Users, stalking or depriving Users of any enjoyment of using Services In a manner which Tacticsoft may determine as Bullying.s.


Building a colony just to spam for friends can be bannable.

Lets look at the tos again:

Quote:
7.4 Colony: When initiating gameplay in Battle Dawn, You shall be required to locate a suitable location for a Colony; You may only establish one Colony per world, and may establish more outposts. You should select Your unique ruler name and Colony name.


Well, a suitable location .... I guess he found one

and:

Quote:
7.6 Alliances: You may join alliances in order to complete Your Goal; however, please note that some alliances have specific codes of conduct and that You cannot attack allied colonies. You may form Alliances and enact codes of conduct as well. Tacticsoft may limit the number of Users in an Alliance and Alliances.


Yep, he found an alliance...

I am not saying that I like the tactic that much, but I can't see any reason to take an action here.
You may say, that he violated 2.2.4 of the TOS as well with this and you may be right. Actually I think, they expected me to ban the colony and it could be that this will happen, but still, it will change nothing. You can send squads to a banned member


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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:20 am 
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Ilona wrote:


Now to the current situation:


There is absolutely no reason to ban/punish or even interfere on this. They used a tactic that the game provides them.
In this case, there is not even a way to change the game mechanics so that it can't happen again.

I will open this thread again, so you can discuss about it
Cheers!

PS. About the subject of this thread: It happened as I was out with friends on a friday night. I did not became quiet at all


I'm sure me and a lot of ppl think differently. It's different situation - The colony which they have used is a new account, clearly dropped for the sole purpose of using to move squads. If that colony was right from the beginning, or maybe 100-200 ticks old, it would have been a different case.

Do u really think that colony is going to take any further part in the war in any manner?

How different is it from a case where you get 5-6 friends who do not play bd to create colonies on enemy hive (with fresh accounts), create their own individuals alliances, or maybe join single alliances and just spam the ops and other stuff in the middle of the war - ppl get banned for doing this all the time, within few ticks of doing so.

I am still appalled at the fact, that this is considered fair play by you - when it's not really that hard to figure out it's against the spirit of the game and should not be allowed.

The game mechanics do not need to be changed to stop it. A swift action by the concerned admin (delete the colony/turn it into camp/turn the moving squads back to origin) would have prevented it, and also passed a msg across to the players involved.


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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:29 am 
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Quote:
I am not saying that I like the tactic that much, but I can't see any reason to take an action here.
You may say, that he violated 2.2.4 of the TOS as well with this and you may be right. Actually I think, they expected me to ban the colony and it could be that this will happen, but still, it will change nothing. You can send squads to a banned member


you can do your job and use your admin tools to make it camp/return there squads for abusing system. doing nothing is not the best option. obviously it is abusing the game

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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:30 am 
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trevor1601 wrote:
[7/7/2014 1:02:32 AM] no prisoners: so i can tell a friend to come to server and build me 50 op's to fill up SA?

[7/7/2014 1:03:57 AM] Ilona: the one who built was actively playing since tick 1, and is also located in africa. Who am i to tell him not going for the 50 nukes achievement or whatever he wants?

[7/7/2014 1:04:31 AM] Ilona: to your question: Yes, when they build now, at tick 833, i would see it different

[7/7/2014 1:05:41 AM] Ilona: it matters a lot. Same as i ban spammers when they build some ticks ago and start spamming now, but i wouldn't ban a player who was all the time active anyway and decide for spamming now


AFAIK - the colony used by 1v1 was not there for ages and was freshly dropped, and if that's the case - the logic explained by you above is very much applicable.

Even if it was few ticks old, was that colony doing anything for 940+ ticks?


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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:31 am 
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But game mechanics could easily be set to prevent anyone entering a world after tick 500.


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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:55 am 
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Ilona wrote:
anthonymn wrote:
N:10212 E:15209‏


‎4‎:‎38‎ ‎PM If a colony is only built just to penetrate enemy grounds it is abusing game mechanics. This is the instance I have reported to both admins in game and on Skype. I have not received a response so I will continue making sure all is informed of this cheating. While I know Rania and Admin Ilona has a close relationship I hope fair play will prevail.

People has been banned in the past. Providing a bridge where there would be none is not fair game play. This happened with avi , jd against Kane and Juno. They planted a colony because they could not get into Na no other way. The colony was banned. It is abuse of game mechanics. If you need me to search for era let me know.‏


It was my alliance who did that. Almost 3 years ago. We lost already our entire network and Kane was on the way to us in Alaska and has already reached greenland ...
We asked 2 friends of us to place a colony. 1 in SA, the other one in Africa in the middle of the GIFT hive. Within seconds, we kicked 2 out and got the new members in, jumped form colony to colony and landed with around 180 squads in their hive.

Then, our member in SA was about to get conquered by an enemy sub. We were afraid that they'll relocate him and we had no way to go back into SA. We kicked him and Andrei launched a squad to him, so we could get him back later on. Funnily, the guy just got a crystal at that very moment.

Seth banned him and Andrei, who had like 80% of our army for farming and abusing game mechanics.

The era was over for us. I remember that I was that angry that I never logged into it again.
One month later, I became admin and the game got changed so you can't gate into a new member colony for the first 24 hours

Thats the story of the trojan horse of BD .....

Now to the current situation:

1. when I ban the colony, for what shall I ban it. For being a colony? For joining an alliance? Nothing of it is banable
2. When I ban the colony, the result is still the same and they can send their squads to a banned member instead of a not banned member
3. When I punish the team, for what should I do it? For having a new member? Whom should I punish? The leader for sending out an invitation?

There is absolutely no reason to ban/punish or even interfere on this. They used a tactic that the game provides them.
In this case, there is not even a way to change the game mechanics so that it can't happen again.

I will open this thread again, so you can discuss about it
Cheers!

PS. About the subject of this thread: It happened as I was out with friends on a friday night. I did not became quiet at all

This. This is clearly an underhanded misuse of the colony system that should be dealt with. But to hear that an Admin who was a player use the same maneuver and cut slack to an alliance that is helping another to whom she has had past ties to using that same underhanded maneuver? That is an appalling and gross abuse of the colony system. It'd be no better if I go and ask all of my college friends to start dropping colonies for the sake of spamming, jamming, and ioning day in and day out. I can do the exact same thing and get a similar result as 1v1 is receiving because there is nothing you can do about it right? Especially if they create their own alliance and come together, OR if they just so happen to join one of the top 10 and they start sending their squads over? Its pathetic really, especially when you have an Admin that has abused the mechanics before as a player. This is in no way in the spirit of BattleDawn.

I'm sorry but you clearly still have biased feelings towards some of your own playing mates, and I cannot look past it as I've already had testimonials of how you used to cheat back in the day as well as provide unfair benefits to those close someones. I've tried to believe that a player can become an Admin, I really have because its something I've always pondered, but clearly it cannot happen this way because there will always be a hint of bias, no matter what. This is why a player cannot be turned into an Admin as there will ALWAYS be clear cut ties to their former running mates and it clouds their sense of judgement when governing a world in BattleDawn.

Rest assured that while I push to have this abusive mechanic put down, I will begin making a case as well to have you removed as an Admin of the Championship Era, if not, of BD in general as you are too incompetent and compromised from doing your duty as a BattleDawn administrator to keep the gameplay FAIR.

And crying Terms of Service as a weapon will do you little good too. This is clear cut abuse of the game mechanics and you have just let it slide. In my 6-7 years of BattleDawn, not once have I seen such incompetence from Admin affect the game so terribly. Perhaps that is why E3 couldn't/can't get out of the RoFL phase, or maybe why it takes a long time for you to respond to other complaints, but should some of your old teammates contact you about something, it only take a few ticks to respond to their problems.

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 Post subject: Re: KMO (KCA) cheating again. Admins all of a sudden quiet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:56 am 
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If I see it as fairplay? No, not even close. It was an unethical move.
What I said is, that I have nothing on my hands to take action.

Turning it into a camp means that I would have to delete that player.
Should I send him an email with: "Sorry, the combination of the place you picked and the alliance you joined doesn't match. I deleted your colony" ?

Or turning the units with a message: "I turned your units, because you send to a new alliance member"

I fully understand the frustration of you guys. But as long as it doesn't violate any written rules, an admin shouldn't interfere and act based on her/his ethical perceptions


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