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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:25 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=49&t=14145 <--bug


The alliance order thing... yeah its annoying i guess they should only be allowed to delete their own orders not the leaders ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:33 am 
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wow spies are WAY OP now...are you kidding? the only way to stop a spy attack is to burn 100 MANA ON 50 SP? spies werent that underused before, now they are beyond 10x TOO powerful,theres simply no way for an alliance to protect their troops anymore...

edit:
mathematical approach:
because spies deplete after usage, it now may take 3 spies at most to damage and lockdown an enemy, but your capability is 10,therefore:
spies are AT LEAST 3x better,arguably 5x better
and the only defense against them is now 5X as expensive?
so spies are what?15-25 TIMES more effective as before?hmm new tactic:
im going to plant spies on peoples colonies and TELL them i have spies there,ill get 5 players, 2 spies a piece,they are OFFICIALLY MANA F'D FOR THE ERA
after 500 ticks for them to stop any ONE spy attack they would have to burn 1000 mana, in otherwords...if one team mate puts 2 spies on another colony(so we have 6 colonies covered=6000 mana=more then 10 full mana reserves) it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop spy attacks at that point even if their alliance spams all their mana on spy protect and they all have FULL mana....conclusion this will either
A)make donators quit
B)make a LOT of players quit
after all whats teh point in playing if 2 players can kill an entire alliance at their leisure?
C)good job you may have given noobs an incentive to play,once those noobs get experienced they will come to this conclusion and quit anyways


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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:02 pm 
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EffingIneffable wrote:
my protection is increasing by 1 per tick, despite the fact that when i try to purchase protection it wrongly tells me that my spy is not on my colony. is this a deliberate change or a bug?


Basically it's true, since when is the spy ship landed on own colony or OPs, it increases ur protection ticks one a tick, just like the old spy infiltration ticks.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Xanthos wrote:
Well, It's taken me TWO days but I've finally read all the posts in the former thread and all the posts in this thread. One thing I'd like to mention as a bit of a joke, Hile's posts kinda made me want to go stab out my own eyes :)
lol I hears ya, no offense Hile but your posting is hard to read mate ;)

Now, on to business. I've never been a very prominent member in the Forums, I generally choose to talk to my alliance's and alliance's i'm in via Skype, that and they're are just so many things going on, on the forums that its a pain to find anything. Does all the important stuff go into announcements? because their have been several times I've not been able to find things in there. Okay I guess I really do have to get on to business now XD
Yes we put any important things into the announcements forum typically and changelog threads go to the specific changelog forum. We also make most important threads a "Global Sticky" meaning it will display at the top of virtually ALL forums you browse.

I agree with a lot of what Mr. Freak said, and a lot of what Aister and Simmen said, Which is ironic since mrfreak's views are completely different from the other two, I believe that boosting usually trumps skill, however that's not always the case.

My first BD mentor who brought me into the game taught me one thing, boosters suck unless they are on your side, but you CAN beat them, Activity beats boosters every time.

On to my thoughts about the updates, When Hile mentioned what he thought of them I believe..Ilona said he should be more detailed about his ideas about it, so I'm going to do that.

1. Coordinate saving - you can now save coordinates in a list for easy quick recall.

This sounds really nice, It would be good to be able to have a place to keep your cords so you dont lose track of the important ones. I've been testing it out and so far I like it.


2. Admin colony security updates - new tools to hunt down and ban Multi accounts.

I don't really believe this affects me or the players very much except that it makes it easier to catch Multi's which I'm all for :) Next thing you need to try and figure out is how to stop people from using tools like Teamviewer to account share. I've heard about it being done a dozen times.
While there will always be a way around every system the latest updates to the admin panel are substantial and will give admins a HUGE advantage in detection that we did not have previously. For security I won't say anything else except if you were skirting the multi/account sharing rules previously you better stop because you probably won't get away with it now! :mrgreen:

3. Rollback multiple squads now possible - Can shift-select squads from the order menu and rollback all of them in one click.


Thank you ADMINS! I've been accidently trying to do this for years even though its not possible and it always drove me insane having to do it one by one.
You're welcome!


4. New spies mechanics - spies now work like in the old client. with one exception. you can plant a spy only where your black ship is


I like this idea though I disagree with several people who said that spies are not used anymore, my alliances, generally with only one or two boosters always use our spies, spies even as they were could change the flow and tied of a battle (Well..before the 1 tick rule came into affect) Regardless I'm excited to see how this will be implemented and have sent my spy to a gate right now to see if anythings different :) It'll be a cool idea to be able to attack multiple points at once with different "agents" However, one thing i'm not happy about is that my spy, on my colony can no longer use twenty mana for 50 spy protection. That upset me a bit.

<Will be Making a note about this at end>

Spies will be tweaked still and updated, the new system changes very much how they work, their impact and techniques. Also I believe that Michael rebuilt the spy system from scratch because the old one contained a lot of mash of code that was no longer being used anymore in the modifications we'd made to it since the New Client launched over 2 years ago now. So there's bound to be some flaws and we'll wrap em up ASAP. Just make sure to keep letting us know any specific issues happening so we can wrap em up, best thing for any critical bugs is to email me directly: andrew@battledawn.com. I have handled the majority of the bug fixing and balancing with Michael since the New Client came out.

5. Cannot attack self/allied anymore - the incident of killing your own/allied troops cannot happen anymore.

Obviously a good update, as it was technically a bug that was causing the problem. if people want to go attack their own squads, just send them to hile.
Yeah it's been a bug plaguing us for a while, so glad to have it plugged finally!


6. Max delay of squads & missles: 24 ticks - reduced max delay time from 50 to 24 ticks. as coordinating attacks doesn't need such a long delay time.


I'm not sure how I feel about this, I was only aware of the ability to "Store" Oil for a certain time so it doesn't truly affect me, though the one that took away the ability to convert Energy drove me insane XD However in most cases I do agree that the Limits are their for a reason, and people shoudlnt be able to get around them.
"Ion Banks" were the main driver to enforce the cap on converting energy. Players would have subs and others that would literally do nothing but convert oil/metal to energy and unleash 6-10 ion attacks per "bank" on the same tick. It was massively unbalancing as there is NO counter to ion cannon strikes beyond the supposed to be HIGH cost that this circumvented.

7. Alliance Orders - new feature. ability for the alliance leader to place markers on the map to plan the strategy of the alliance. only visible to the alliance members.

This one's been in production for..what..ever? XD I remeber when I heard about this probably a year ago? I dont know if it was that long but kudo's for finally getting it out, but..It would be really nice to have a bit of explantion on it
It was never in production, it was a feature that was supposed to come in a while back but coding was pushed back for a long time due to some technical issues surrounding it from what I understand. With a new veteran programmer on the staff(Eran) and Michael back to coding full time again they were able to get the issue resolved. SOOO happy to have this one in there, this is a feature players(And me!) have been asking for for a long time.


<Note on this at the end tying in to spies>

8. Relocation bug fixed - you can now relocate if you have enough resources.


Again, Thank you Admins. This drove me and one of my friends insane once as we were conquered because of it. we were the only two in our alliance on, we didnt have the money to boost, or the blues, both of us end up conquered even though we both had the required Resources and E
Yeah Our bad on that one :(


9. Relics will have a radar range like radar outposts. and will be jammable.

I kinda like this, It makes it so you dont have to throw up farsights/sat scans every five minutes thats for sure, though I think that its not really going to come into play since for some reason ALL players seem to hate the rank one alliance whom will most likely have the relic's and in which case their relics will be constantly jammed.

A side note: I really really dislike the whole "Relics cant be Ion'd" Same with Garrison's I don't really understand what you were trying to do with that and I'd love to know why? Most of the people I lead these days cant be nearly as active, hence when relics appear while they're at school..I and my active members, wont be able to effectively take Relics or Garrisons before others since we'd suicide our armies to do so

Keep in mind that in tandem with the new immunities of admin controlled relics they will also have less units to compensate. It will be a tougher to take them yes but it shouldn't be too devastating. The issue was that with nukes/spies it made all units vaporize to any size army pretty much, this made it FAR to easy to cap the relics and even if we added 8k people would drop 10 nukes and it'd be down to under 1k before anyone attempts it so it was just silly. We'll monitor this balance carefully and also will be revamping the relic release system coming up soon.


<Note on 4# and 7#>

Could we please have the Battledawn Wiki's updated and perhaps posted in the news? I've found the alliance orders thing (after forever) but I would really like to know what all the symbols mean.. The First is obviously an attack symbol the second a defend, the third a thing marking where scans are needed..but I'm not sure about the others, I imagine the exclamation point might be for points of interest, and the same thing with the spies, I dont know how to USE my new spy. So, Could we have either the Wiki updated, or perhaps the Help? which I think is severely outdated at this point XD or could you just post somewhere everyone will be able to find about how to USE BD's new features?..
The wiki is going to be updated and also we're probably going to simply scrap the in-game help and instead link directly to wiki articles. The wiki is far better for the indexing and formatting.

Anyway, Sorry for the wall of text but I figured perhaps ya'll would like some feedback even though you've already had a lot of it. All of this was collected from me, and around ten or so other people from my alliance, my ideas and their's on the current updates. Overall, I'm mostly pleased though they're are some things I wished hadn't changed, and I would definitely like to know how to USE some of the new things.


<EDITED TO MAKE COLORS EASIER TO SEE)

See my notes in green in the above quote.

Thanks for your comprehensive feedback, I appreciate it when users construct such a detailed list of questions, feedback, questions, etc on features. This allows us to easily identify issues and while "DAMN YOU THIS SUCKS" is still feedback it's not nearly as helpful to get your point across or to get the issue resolved ;).

-Andrew

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:03 pm 
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aister wrote:
EffingIneffable wrote:
my protection is increasing by 1 per tick, despite the fact that when i try to purchase protection it wrongly tells me that my spy is not on my colony. is this a deliberate change or a bug?


Basically it's true, since when is the spy ship landed on own colony or OPs, it increases ur protection ticks one a tick, just like the old spy infiltration ticks.

Wherever your master spy is the spy protection will increase by 1 per tick.

-Andrew

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:03 pm 
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aister wrote:
I mean when we start new era, Like the alliance limit things.

This updates has completely delete all my spy infiltration ticks on my enemy colony and it's no good. I guess there will be some complaints soon enough. And it's pretty hard for me to stand in ur side this time.

camronb01 wrote:
Spy update should not be added mid era i don't like that as many of us have spies waiting for upcoming attacks, if my spy inf is set to 0 i will be very upset, not cool, cant you at least wait till winner is declared on each server before implementing this?

I mean then at least spies don't turn the tide of the era anymore.

Like the update but not "MID" era how about late era?

Certain systems are global and some are world specific. Things like alliance sizes, tick speeds and a few other variables are world specific but the majority of the game systems/functions are global.

The battle system, spy system, resource calculation, and most others are all global systems so they cannot be implemented on a world by world basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Andrew wrote:
Certain systems are global and some are world specific. Things like alliance sizes, tick speeds and a few other variables are world specific but the majority of the game systems/functions are global.

The battle system, spy system, resource calculation, and most others are all global systems so they cannot be implemented on a world by world basis.


yeah but some updates are simply blowing the strategies away.

Some teams go to a world with a strategy in hand so if their strategies got blow away it'll be very dramatic.

Imagine if I went to a world and in the first few ticks I've already decided to attack a certain alliance at tick 800. Then I and my members sent the spies to them at tick 100. So at tick 800 we'll have 700 infiltration ticks.

But then with this update, I'll lost all my infiltration ticks and ta-da~. My alliance lose the game.

The same thing goes with the power limit. If we're in 1st and have a close chase with the 2nd alliance, then bam... our conquers lose powers. And we dropped to 2nd place simply because we have more conquers than the 2nd alliance.

Some changes can't be implemented in the middle of the game. It will ruin it.

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:57 am 
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They've got to implement it somehow

And making all worlds havoc forever so they all restart (and implement new features) at the same time isn't exactly possible

Maybe you should use this as a chance to get used to it, so you won't be confuzzled next era when you're really going for the win?

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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:03 am 
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Wait a minute, an alliance of 14 will have 140 spies to use, how would we protect ourselves against 140 spy attacks or having Two or Three Alliances working together, YO thats 420 spies ! never mind adding in any conquered colonies spies.

We will not be able to build many if any squads, all our metal and oil will have to be converted to energy, unless there is going to be a change in energy per tick, like 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 energy per tick, even that is to low, considering energy costs for scanning, nukes, gating, sat scans

Maybe, dropping from 10 too 3 spies if you in an alliance, and keeping 5 for those who are not in an alliance would be a bit better. giving the advantage to them against so many more,


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 Post subject: Re: Upcoming Update 9 Oct - summerized list with descriptions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:06 am 
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First of all they're alliances of 10 now

But yeah... still with 100 spies from just one alliance thats a lot :shock:

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