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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:48 am 
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ronelm2000 wrote:
I think we transferred topics. =P

So we didn't.

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:50 pm 
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mrducky wrote:
EXTREMELY SORRY FOR THE LONG POST. READ ALL. ENTERTAINING

pictures are not mine ones without the website watermark are freely submitted with no copyright. pictures with watermark shouldnt have watermark removed. that is all.

<this area is reserved by ducky through a double post for a proper revised and correct response to whatshisface. apollo. i know he wont reply, but anytime he bugs me, i want a proper full response to stare him in the face in the form of a link

so please dont delete this double post.>

need a mod to go through images.

ill brush up the arguments later.
V.3.0 - arguments are weak, images up. basis is up

(V.5.0 is final)
apollo wrote:
"Science may have alleviated the miseries of disease and drudgery and provided an array of gadgetry for our entertainment and convenience, but it has left us in a world without wonder. Our sunsets have been reduced to wavelengths and frequencies.


Image
<yes... because in order to understand the universe we have to make it understandable. you can sit there and believe what you will. but in the end, none of our scientific advances beyond what we can cut out of a carcass of last weeks hunt is possible without understanding reality and not the delusion.>

i dont need god to tell me the shades of pink reflecting of the water vapor in crystal form in the atmosphere and the delicate hues of orange and blue and dark and light is beautiful. i see those mere wavelengths and frequencies and i know it is stunning. i see a supernova, with the outwards expanding gas shells burning different colours to the elements within and it is stunning.


apollo wrote:
The complexities of the universe have been shredded into mathematical equations. Even our self-worth as human beings has been destroyed. Science proclaims that Planet Earth and its inhabitants are a meaningless speck in the grand scheme. A cosmic accident.

Image
<a meaningless speck....>

inevitable accident, life is bound to happen, even if the chance of life is so minimal it cannot be counted, the amount of stars and galaxies out there are beyond our fathom. besides, i prefer "Luke, use the force times acceleration" over, trust in god and he will fling those droids away.
you prefer make believe, if reality isnt good enough for you and you go to religion, that says a lot.


apollo wrote:
" He paused. "Even the technology that promises to unite us, divides us. Each of us is now electronically connected to the globe, and yet we feel utterly alone. We are bombarded with violence, division, fracture, and betrayal. Skepticism has become a virtue. Cynicism and demand for proof has become enlightened thought. Is it any wonder that humans now feel more depressed and defeated than they have at any point in human history? Does science hold anything sacred?


Image
reality as opposed to euphoric delusion. welcome to reality. if you want to close your eyes and dream. fine by me. if you want everyone to stop progressing then there is an issue here.

because thinking critically is dangerous to religion.
and perhaps modern life is more complex and overwhelming, if you want a backwater tribe like existence where the cure for the common cold is to remove a finger then so be it. go into the rainforests of the amazon or something, commune with them. "what makes fire?" - god makes it burn. "why am i dieing?" - god commands it. "why are we at war with the tribe there?" - god wills it. "why must we eat this child alive" - a sacrifice unto god.
if you want to live in say, aztecs? incans? i ceebs figuring it out. if you want to live in aztec times and rip out hearts to power the sun god across the sky, be my guest. sure, it might be emotionally fulfilling, it might be accepted as correct. SO ONWARDS OH GREAT SUN GOD.


apollo wrote:
Science looks for answers by probing our unborn fetuses. Science even presumes to rearrange our own DNA. It shatters God's world into smaller and smaller pieces in quest of meaning ... and all it finds is more questions.The ancient war between science and religion is over, You have won. But you have not won fairly. You have not won by providing answers. You have won by so radically reorienting our society that the truths we once saw as signposts now seem inapplicable. Religion cannot keep up. Scientific growth is exponential. It feeds on itself like a virus. Every new breakthrough opens doors for new breakthroughs. Mankind took thousands of years to progress from the wheel to the car. Yet only decades from the car into space. Now we measure scientific progress in weeks. We are spinning out of control. The rift between us grows deeper and deeper, and as religion is left behind, people find themselves in a spiritual void. We cry out for meaning. And believe me, we do cry out.


Image
Image
< :3 stem cell research, what you see there... is that a baby? is that anything that resembles a baby? no. they are non specialized stem cells. if they were specialized then it would start to become life. almost all organisms have these non specialized stem cells. only we can only use ours.>

a mass of stem cells is not a fetus. besides, most people are using umbilical cords or adult something cells. they do this is fear of getting firebombed and killed by those that are religious. "thou shalt not kill" "unless god commands it, only god is allowed to drown out all mankind or tell david to insert rock into steroids man or help moses drown an army and continue to support slavery... only god. remember that" i remember once that the pope said medicine was heretical. that disease is caused by sin and insanity is causedby DEMONS IN THE HEAD. not our current pope, but whats the difference? one supports the crusade, the other, hitler jugend. and it was also the catholics who legitimized the *CENSORED* party to the world by signing that doctrine (if you do reply, ill gladly hand source to you, im typing from sis laptop on snow land :D)

apollo wrote:
We see UFOs, engage in channeling, spirit contact, out-of-body experiences, mindquests-all these eccentric ideas have a scientific veneer, but they are unashamedly irrational. They are the desperate cry of the modern soul, lonely and tormented, crippled by its own enlightenment and its inability to accept meaning in anything removed from technology.Science, you say, will save us.


Image
<as opposed to this enlightening enlightenment :3>
Image
<religion had its chance to "save us" they were called the dark ages. now science needs to clean up the mess.>

and now you know why mainstream people call them crackpots.
in the near distant future, same word might be applicable to fundamentalists if it has not been already... were the 911 attacks, crusade, inquisition, jihad, religious cleansing in africa all alright? or were they conducted by crackpots? btw, out of body experiences are pretty much the ONLY form of evidence of humans have a soul. pretty shaky evidence to be listed there.


apollo wrote:
Science, I say, has destroyed us. Since the days of Galileo, the church has tried to slow the relentless march of science, sometimes with misguided means, but always with benevolent intention. Even so, the temptations are too great for man to resist. I warn you, look around yourselves. The promises of science have not been kept. Promises of efficiency and simplicity have bred nothing but pollution and chaos. We are a fractured and frantic species . . . moving down a path of destruction.


Image
<because science is wrong and religion is right... sure>

last sentence is correct. galileo was persecuted horribly for trying to think. what dumb *CENSORED* wrote this? that is a bad example. absolutely stupefies me you quote this person, if you wrote this, then yes. discussion over.

apollo wrote:
"Who is this God science? Who is the God who offers his people power but no moral framework to tell you how to use that power? What kind of God gives a child fire but does not warn the child of its dangers? The language of science comes with no signposts about good and bad. Science textbooks tell us how to create a nuclear reaction, and yet they contain no chapter asking us if it is a good or a bad idea.


Image
Image
<moral framework?
Thou shalt not kill... unless you are god or if he tells you to (ie flood/david vs goliath
Elishar and the 2 bears
sell your daughters into sexual slavery...
please dont say religion has a moral high. its really quite insulting. some religious people are morally better. but to say that religion is morally good is unacceptable if you look at history. pfft, look at the times when god goes on smiting rampages.>

in my chem book there is a chapter called GREEN CHEMISTRY.
wiki green chemistry, it has 14 principles to uphold. besides whats the difference? me with an ak with 30 rounds cannot killed 42 children like the prophet elishar and his 2 bears sent by god. science would be the lesser of 2 evils, if you get science and religion together... D:


apollo wrote:
To science, I say this. The church is tired.


Image
<ASIF. the church has been meddlign with our affairs for ages and always will. gays are not allowed to marry. why? stem cell research cannot continue. why? you shouldnt shamelessly lie. or make assumptions. the church is trying harder then ever to maintain a grip on the populus. ie. look to the changes in the vatican recently>

which church? church of latter day saints? church of buddhism?... scientology??? ill assume christianity, but there are simply sooo many gods out there, at least cthulu admits he is evil. besides, the catholic church supports the idea of a big bang and evolution, they simply believe it was inspired by the will of god. well... the modern one at least. the traditional one is very much like religion you describe.

apollo wrote:
We are exhausted from trying to be your signposts. Our resources are drying up from our campaign to be the voice of balance as you plow blindly on in your quest for smaller chips and larger profits. We ask not why you will not govern yourselves, but how can you? Your world moves so fast that if you stop even for an instant to consider the implications of your actions, someone more efficient will whip past you in a blur. So you move on.


<no pic for this statement>

onwards for a better life now, rather then maybe a better life later in the afterlife. although to a point, this section is quite correct. GM foods were meant to stop starvation but instead they make the rich grow richer.. its like the southpark take on it. you can cure aids. simply inject $180 000 into you and the AIDS is gone. switch scene to poverty africa with a man rejoicing that they cured aids.

apollo wrote:
You proliferate weapons of mass destruction, but it is the Pope who travels the world beseeching leaders to use restraint. You clone living creatures, but it is the church reminding us to consider the moral implications of our actions.




what stops WMDs? not the pope. People actually doing stuff.. when Russia began shipping nukes to cuba did USA sit idly by waiting for the pope to speak?

the families of children molested by the catholic church... did they sit idly by? no. they took legal action.

as for the pope himself.
google "inquisition"


apollo wrote:
You encourage people to interact on phones, video screens, and computers, but it is the church who opens its doors and reminds us to commune in person as we were meant to do. You even murder unborn babies in the name of research that will save lives.


Image
<who encourages what kind of living now?>

1. i seriously dont think a bundle of unspecialized stem cells is considered a fetus. its like calling a zygote a baby.
welcome to the internets :D liek BD? i believe you are an avid supporter of the amish life?


apollo wrote:
Again, it is the church who points out the fallacy of this reasoning. "And all the while, you proclaim the church is ignorant. But who is more ignorant? The man who cannot define lightning, or the man who does not respect its awesome power?


erect a long metal pole with the base touching the ground. SCREW YOU LIGHTNING! although i must admit, B. Franklin (founding father) with the key attached to the kite was asking for an early burial but other then that, dont hide under trees during a lightning storm. if you have adequate knowledge of what lightning is then you would know how to get away from it. (you can die if the lightning strike the ground 100m away from you. physics basics. that is far better then, OBEY ZEUS OR HE INSERT LIGHTNING INTO YOUR FACE.

apollo wrote:
This church is reaching out to you. Reaching out to everyone. And yet the more we reach, the more you push us away. Show me proof there is a God, you say. I say use your telescopes to look to the heavens, and tell me how there could not be a God!


i look to the heavens, i see wonderful twinkling nuclear furnaces. deeper examination shows billions of galaxies. how arrogant of me to think that all this was not created for a tiny speck of rock in the cosmos. please see first image of earth taken from voyager


Image

apollo wrote:
You ask what does God look like. I say, where did that question come from? The answers are one and the same. Do you not see God in your science? How can you miss Him! You proclaim that even the slightest change in the force of gravity or the weight of an atom would have rendered our universe a lifeless mist rather than our magnificent sea of heavenly bodies, and yet you fail to see God's hand in this? Is it really so much easier to believe that we simply chose the right card from a deck of billions? Have we become so spiritually bankrupt that we would rather believe in mathematical impossibility than in a power greater than us?


Image

multiverse theory, anything similiar to that explains a lot.
BUT WAIT. ITS JUST A THEORY. lets ignore it instead.

or you can simply occams razor it.


apollo wrote:
Whether or not you believe in God, you must believe this. When we as a species abandon our trust in the power greater than us, we abandon our sense of accountability.


Image

wrong. i can prove this.
if god told you to eat a baby alive, would you?
therefore morality does not come from god. if morality doesnt come from god, he cannot judge, jury and EXECUTION-ATE!! - plato 236504358 b.c. and yet people still thinks morality comes from god. this thinking is what results in jihad and crusades. GOD WILLS IT THEREFORE I SLAUGHTER A VILLAGE


apollo wrote:
Faith ... all faiths … are admonitions that there is something we cannot understand, something to which we are accountable . . . With faith we are accountable to each other, to ourselves, and to a higher truth. Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed. If the outside world could see this church as I do ... looking beyond the ritual of these walls . . . they would see a modern miracle... a brotherhood of imperfect, simple souls wanting only to be a voice of compassion in a world spinning out of control. . . .


touching. but... if man is flawed the word he writes/translates is flawed. if the major pillar of a religion is its text and it is flawed as it is written by man then... is not the entire religious reason under strain?

see how i quite simply dont care about a hypocritical voice


apollo wrote:
Are we obsolete? Are these men dinosaurs? Am I? Does the world really need a voice for the poor, the weak, the oppressed, the unborn child? Do we really need souls like these who, though imperfect, spend their lives imploring each of us to read the signposts of morality and not lose our way?


Image
morality~~~

i deem my own morality, i will not kill someone because that voice in my head claims to be god and tells me to. that would be schizophrenia. my own morality is imbued by the way i live and the culture and life i experience. follow jesus and sell off ALL your worldly possession and give proceeds to the poor. or. live a good life and it will eventually rub off and result in a better world rather then a lot of currency and a lot of people who are homeless and require help due to their goodwill.

apollo wrote:
/leaves topic for good.


1. aww, absolutely pathetic to leave this and not come back P.S. i will bug you until you acknowledge what you posted ehre was a poor effort

2. oooh tugging at the heartstrings, thats a new approach for you

- Ducky.


and if anyone is wondering, yes, i am being particularly harsh because i think apollo copy pasted this from somewhere else

if anyone is actually willing, to debate, with actual point and discussion, i will not ridicule, i may tease, but i wont go to the lengths here. this is something similiar to a wall of shame. at apollos effort.

my offer stands. if you are willing to debate. then i will debate back. if you arent. you open yourself up for ridicule




THIS WAS ALL VERY INTERESTING

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Ronelm seems to have stopped reply'ing.

I ques , I "win" then :P

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:08 am 
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rederoin wrote:
Ronelm seems to have stopped reply'ing.

I ques , I "win" then :P

I forgot i had a post here XD

lol.

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:10 am 
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ronelm2000 wrote:
rederoin wrote:
Ronelm seems to have stopped reply'ing.

I ques , I "win" then :P

I forgot i had a post here XD

lol.

You still have a chance.

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