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 Post subject: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:48 am 
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ill take on anyone, only thing is that i dibs science > religion/creationism

anyone wanna moderate?

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Looks to me like you're just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, not to reach any meaningful conclusion, which seems like exactly the kind of debate I'd want to avoid.

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:28 pm 
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Im not a creationist

So i couldn't even argue whit u :P

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:49 am 
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Routhy wrote:
Looks to me like you're just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, not to reach any meaningful conclusion, which seems like exactly the kind of debate I'd want to avoid.

is that not the discussion of ALL my debates/discussion?

ive been poking around and know a tonne more on the subject since General Kaja disappeared..

ive seen the bs on aig

ive looked at various philosophical arguments and along with the help of another 5 people, got all religious/evolution discussions on facebook completely banned as it offended people.
i didnt swear >.>
or call names
the only place i do take a snap at people is on youtube... :3 comments getting removed by authors plenty of times :D

anyways... if the creationist side can put up a discussion, it should be interesting.

rederoin wrote:
Im not a creationist

So i couldn't even argue whit u :P

then why post here?

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:56 pm 
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mrducky wrote:
Routhy wrote:
Looks to me like you're just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, not to reach any meaningful conclusion, which seems like exactly the kind of debate I'd want to avoid.

is that not the discussion of ALL my debates/discussion?

ive been poking around and know a tonne more on the subject since General Kaja disappeared..

ive seen the bs on aig

ive looked at various philosophical arguments and along with the help of another 5 people, got all religious/evolution discussions on facebook completely banned as it offended people.
i didnt swear >.>
or call names
the only place i do take a snap at people is on youtube... :3 comments getting removed by authors plenty of times :D

anyways... if the creationist side can put up a discussion, it should be interesting.

rederoin wrote:
Im not a creationist

So i couldn't even argue whit u :P

then why post here?


Because he feels special.

I am not a creationist, but I can debate you if you wish. I am fully able to pretend, I act IRL XD

Seriously, if you really can't find anyone, i'll do it ;)

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:21 am 
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Jasper Alexander wrote:
mrducky wrote:
Routhy wrote:
Looks to me like you're just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, not to reach any meaningful conclusion, which seems like exactly the kind of debate I'd want to avoid.

is that not the discussion of ALL my debates/discussion?

ive been poking around and know a tonne more on the subject since General Kaja disappeared..

ive seen the bs on aig

ive looked at various philosophical arguments and along with the help of another 5 people, got all religious/evolution discussions on facebook completely banned as it offended people.
i didnt swear >.>
or call names
the only place i do take a snap at people is on youtube... :3 comments getting removed by authors plenty of times :D

anyways... if the creationist side can put up a discussion, it should be interesting.

rederoin wrote:
Im not a creationist

So i couldn't even argue whit u :P

then why post here?


Because he feels special.

I am not a creationist, but I can debate you if you wish. I am fully able to pretend, I act IRL XD

Seriously, if you really can't find anyone, i'll do it ;)


bring it, as long as you dont do something extremely stupid. ie. pascals wager. why isnt peanut butter a zebra, why isnt a monkey evolving into a hippo... etc.

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:21 am 
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I am a "creationist"

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:28 am 
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apollo wrote:
I am a "creationist"

i am well aware of that. i am an "evolutionist" "rationalist" "darwinist" "follower of scientific methodist"

you willing to debate?

you need to bring weight with ID or IC or ill ignore your sillyness and say "men have nipples" or "99.9% of all species are currently extinct"
but if you use ID or IC correctly, i shouldnt be able to stomp you like that.

if you dont know what ID or IC are, come back later.

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:36 am 
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"Science may have alleviated the miseries of disease and drudgery and provided an array of gadgetry for our entertainment and convenience, but it has left us in a world without wonder. Our sunsets have been reduced to wavelengths and frequencies. The complexities of the universe have been shredded into mathematical equations. Even our self-worth as human beings has been destroyed. Science proclaims that Planet Earth and its inhabitants are a meaningless speck in the grand scheme. A cosmic accident." He paused. "Even the technology that promises to unite us, divides us. Each of us is now electronically connected to the globe, and yet we feel utterly alone. We are bombarded with violence, division, fracture, and betrayal. Skepticism has become a virtue. Cynicism and demand for proof has become enlightened thought. Is it any wonder that humans now feel more depressed and defeated than they have at any point in human history? Does science hold anything sacred? Science looks for answers by probing our unborn fetuses. Science even presumes to rearrange our own DNA. It shatters God's world into smaller and smaller pieces in quest of meaning ... and all it finds is more questions.The ancient war between science and religion is over, You have won. But you have not won fairly. You have not won by providing answers. You have won by so radically reorienting our society that the truths we once saw as signposts now seem inapplicable. Religion cannot keep up. Scientific growth is exponential. It feeds on itself like a virus. Every new breakthrough opens doors for new breakthroughs. Mankind took thousands of years to progress from the wheel to the car. Yet only decades from the car into space. Now we measure scientific progress in weeks. We are spinning out of control. The rift between us grows deeper and deeper, and as religion is left behind, people find themselves in a spiritual void. We cry out for meaning. And believe me, we do cry out. We see UFOs, engage in channeling, spirit contact, out-of-body experiences, mindquests-all these eccentric ideas have a scientific veneer, but they are unashamedly irrational. They are the desperate cry of the modern soul, lonely and tormented, crippled by its own enlightenment and its inability to accept meaning in anything removed from technology.Science, you say, will save us. Science, I say, has destroyed us. Since the days of Galileo, the church has tried to slow the relentless march of science, sometimes with misguided means, but always with benevolent intention. Even so, the temptations are too great for man to resist. I warn you, look around yourselves. The promises of science have not been kept. Promises of efficiency and simplicity have bred nothing but pollution and chaos. We are a fractured and frantic species . . . moving down a path of destruction."Who is this God science? Who is the God who offers his people power but no moral framework to tell you how to use that power? What kind of God gives a child fire but does not warn the child of its dangers? The language of science comes with no signposts about good and bad. Science textbooks tell us how to create a nuclear reaction, and yet they contain no chapter asking us if it is a good or a bad idea.

To science, I say this. The church is tired. We are exhausted from trying to be your signposts. Our resources are drying up from our campaign to be the voice of balance as you plow blindly on in your quest for smaller chips and larger profits. We ask not why you will not govern yourselves, but how can you? Your world moves so fast that if you stop even for an instant to consider the implications of your actions, someone more efficient will whip past you in a blur. So you move on. You proliferate weapons of mass destruction, but it is the Pope who travels the world beseeching leaders to use restraint. You clone living creatures, but it is the church reminding us to consider the moral implications of our actions. You encourage people to interact on phones, video screens, and computers, but it is the church who opens its doors and reminds us to commune in person as we were meant to do. You even murder unborn babies in the name of research that will save lives. Again, it is the church who points out the fallacy of this reasoning. "And all the while, you proclaim the church is ignorant. But who is more ignorant? The man who cannot define lightning, or the man who does not respect its awesome power? This church is reaching out to you. Reaching out to everyone. And yet the more we reach, the more you push us away. Show me proof there is a God, you say. I say use your telescopes to look to the heavens, and tell me how there could not be a God!

You ask what does God look like. I say, where did that question come from? The answers are one and the same. Do you not see God in your science? How can you miss Him! You proclaim that even the slightest change in the force of gravity or the weight of an atom would have rendered our universe a lifeless mist rather than our magnificent sea of heavenly bodies, and yet you fail to see God's hand in this? Is it really so much easier to believe that we simply chose the right card from a deck of billions? Have we become so spiritually bankrupt that we would rather believe in mathematical impossibility than in a power greater than us?

Whether or not you believe in God, you must believe this. When we as a species abandon our trust in the power greater than us, we abandon our sense of accountability. Faith ... all faiths … are admonitions that there is something we cannot understand, something to which we are accountable . . . With faith we are accountable to each other, to ourselves, and to a higher truth. Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed. If the outside world could see this church as I do ... looking beyond the ritual of these walls . . . they would see a modern miracle... a brotherhood of imperfect, simple souls wanting only to be a voice of compassion in a world spinning out of control. . . .

Are we obsolete?” “Are these men dinosaurs? Am I? Does the world really need a voice for the poor, the weak, the oppressed, the unborn child? Do we really need souls like these who, though imperfect, spend their lives imploring each of us to read the signposts of morality and not lose our way?

/leaves topic for good.

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 Post subject: Re: anything to do with evolution/religion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:31 am 
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apollo wrote:
"Science may have alleviated the miseries of disease and drudgery and provided an array of gadgetry for our entertainment and convenience, but it has left us in a world without wonder. Our sunsets have been reduced to wavelengths and frequencies.

i dont need god to tell me the shades of pink reflecting of the water vapor in crystal form in the atmosphere and the delicate hues of orange and blue and dark and light is beautiful. i see those mere wavelengths and frequencies and i know it is stunning. i see a supernova, with the outwards expanding gas shells burning different colours to the elements within and it is stunning.
"the garden is quite beautiful with its roses and flowers without the need to invent magical invisible pixies hidden amongst the bushes"


The complexities of the universe have been shredded into mathematical equations. Even our self-worth as human beings has been destroyed. Science proclaims that Planet Earth and its inhabitants are a meaningless speck in the grand scheme. A cosmic accident.

inevitable accident, life is bound to happen, even if the chance of life is so minimal it cannot be counted, the amount of stars and galaxies out there are beyond our fathom. besides, i prefer "Luke, use the force times acceleration" over, trust in god and he will fling those droids away.
you prefer make believe, if reality isnt good enough for you and you go to religion, that says a lot.


" He paused. "Even the technology that promises to unite us, divides us. Each of us is now electronically connected to the globe, and yet we feel utterly alone. We are bombarded with violence, division, fracture, and betrayal. Skepticism has become a virtue. Cynicism and demand for proof has become enlightened thought. Is it any wonder that humans now feel more depressed and defeated than they have at any point in human history? Does science hold anything sacred?

because thinking critically is dangerous to religion.
and perhaps modern life is more complex and overwhelming, if you want a backwater tribe like existence where the cure for the common cold is to remove a finger then so be it. go into the rainforests of the amazon or something, commune with them. "what makes fire?" - god makes it burn. "why am i dieing?" - god commands it. "why are we at war with the tribe there?" - god wills it. "why must we eat this child alive" - a sacrifice unto god.
if you want to live in say, aztecs? incans? i ceebs figuring it out. if you want to live in aztec times and rip out hearts to power the sun god across the sky, be my guest. sure, it might be emotionally fulfilling, it might be accepted as correct. SO ONWARDS OH GREAT SUN GOD.


Science looks for answers by probing our unborn fetuses. Science even presumes to rearrange our own DNA. It shatters God's world into smaller and smaller pieces in quest of meaning ... and all it finds is more questions.The ancient war between science and religion is over, You have won. But you have not won fairly. You have not won by providing answers. You have won by so radically reorienting our society that the truths we once saw as signposts now seem inapplicable. Religion cannot keep up. Scientific growth is exponential. It feeds on itself like a virus. Every new breakthrough opens doors for new breakthroughs. Mankind took thousands of years to progress from the wheel to the car. Yet only decades from the car into space. Now we measure scientific progress in weeks. We are spinning out of control. The rift between us grows deeper and deeper, and as religion is left behind, people find themselves in a spiritual void. We cry out for meaning. And believe me, we do cry out.

a mass of stem cells is not a fetus. besides, most people are using umbilical cords or adult something cells. they do this is fear of getting firebombed and killed by those that are religious. "thou shalt not kill" "unless god commands it, only god is allowed to drown out all mankind or tell david to insert rock into steroids man or help moses drown an army and continue to support slavery... only god. remember that" i remember once that the pope said medicine was heretical. that disease is caused by sin and insanity is causedby DEMONS IN THE HEAD. not our current pope, but whats the difference? one supports the crusade, the other, hitler jugend. and it was also the catholics who legitimized the nazi party to the world by signing that doctrine (if you do reply, ill gladly hand source to you, im typing from sis laptop on snow land :D)

We see UFOs, engage in channeling, spirit contact, out-of-body experiences, mindquests-all these eccentric ideas have a scientific veneer, but they are unashamedly irrational. They are the desperate cry of the modern soul, lonely and tormented, crippled by its own enlightenment and its inability to accept meaning in anything removed from technology.Science, you say, will save us.

and now you know why mainstream people call them crackpots.
in the near distant future, same word might be applicable to fundamentalists if it has not been already... were the 911 attacks, crusade, inquisition, jihad, religious cleansing in africa all alright? or were they conducted by crackpots? btw, out of body experiences are pretty much the ONLY form of evidence of humans have a soul. pretty shaky evidence to be listed there.


Science, I say, has destroyed us. Since the days of Galileo, the church has tried to slow the relentless march of science, sometimes with misguided means, but always with benevolent intention. Even so, the temptations are too great for man to resist. I warn you, look around yourselves. The promises of science have not been kept. Promises of efficiency and simplicity have bred nothing but pollution and chaos. We are a fractured and frantic species . . . moving down a path of destruction.

last sentence is correct. galileo was persecuted horribly for trying to think. what dumb ass wrote this? that is a bad example. absolutely stupefies me you quote this person, if you wrote this, then yes. discussion over.

"Who is this God science? Who is the God who offers his people power but no moral framework to tell you how to use that power? What kind of God gives a child fire but does not warn the child of its dangers? The language of science comes with no signposts about good and bad. Science textbooks tell us how to create a nuclear reaction, and yet they contain no chapter asking us if it is a good or a bad idea.

in my chem book there is a chapter called GREEN CHEMISTRY.
wiki green chemistry, it has 14 principles to uphold. besides whats the difference? me with an ak with 30 rounds cannot killed 42 children like the prophet elishar and his 2 bears sent by god. science would be the lesser of 2 evils, if you get science and religion together... D:


To science, I say this. The church is tired.

which church? church of latter day saints? church of buddhism?... scientology??? ill assume christianity, but there are simply sooo many gods out there, at least cthulu admits he is evil. besides, the catholic church supports the idea of a big bang and evolution, they simply believe it was inspired by the will of god. well... the modern one at least. the traditional one is very much like religion you describe.

We are exhausted from trying to be your signposts. Our resources are drying up from our campaign to be the voice of balance as you plow blindly on in your quest for smaller chips and larger profits. We ask not why you will not govern yourselves, but how can you? Your world moves so fast that if you stop even for an instant to consider the implications of your actions, someone more efficient will whip past you in a blur. So you move on.

onwards for a better life now, rather then maybe a better life later in the afterlife. although to a point, this section is quite correct. GM foods were meant to stop starvation but instead they make the rich grow richer.. its like the southpark take on it. you can cure aids. simply inject $180 000 into you and the AIDS is gone. switch scene to poverty africa with a man rejoicing that they cured aids.

You proliferate weapons of mass destruction, but it is the Pope who travels the world beseeching leaders to use restraint. You clone living creatures, but it is the church reminding us to consider the moral implications of our actions.

google "inquisition"

You encourage people to interact on phones, video screens, and computers, but it is the church who opens its doors and reminds us to commune in person as we were meant to do. You even murder unborn babies in the name of research that will save lives.

1. i seriously dont think a bundle of unspecialized stem cells is considered a fetus. its like calling a zygote a baby. god would be more displeased to the amount of lost seed in the world.
welcome to the internets :D i believe you are an avid supporter of the amish life?


Again, it is the church who points out the fallacy of this reasoning. "And all the while, you proclaim the church is ignorant. But who is more ignorant? The man who cannot define lightning, or the man who does not respect its awesome power?

erect a long metal pole with the base touching the ground. SCREW YOU LIGHTNING! although i must admit, whathisface with the key attached to the kite was asking for an early burial but other then that, dont hide under trees during a lightning storm. if you have adequate knowledge of what lightning is then you would know how to get away from it. (you can die if the lightning strike the ground 100m away from you. physics basics. that is far better then, OBEY ZEUS OR HE INSERT LIGHTNING INTO YOUR FACE.

This church is reaching out to you. Reaching out to everyone. And yet the more we reach, the more you push us away. Show me proof there is a God, you say. I say use your telescopes to look to the heavens, and tell me how there could not be a God!

i look to the heavens, i see wonderful twinkling nuclear furnaces. deeper examination shows billions of galaxies. how arrogant of me to think that all this was not created for a tiny speck of rock in the cosmos.
Conventional logic
1.i have a baseball.
2.really? prove it.
1.here it is
2.oh, i guess you are right.

Religious logic
1. i have a baseball.
2. really? prove it.
1. YOU CANT PROVE I DONT!!
2. wtf....


You ask what does God look like. I say, where did that question come from? The answers are one and the same. Do you not see God in your science? How can you miss Him! You proclaim that even the slightest change in the force of gravity or the weight of an atom would have rendered our universe a lifeless mist rather than our magnificent sea of heavenly bodies, and yet you fail to see God's hand in this? Is it really so much easier to believe that we simply chose the right card from a deck of billions? Have we become so spiritually bankrupt that we would rather believe in mathematical impossibility than in a power greater than us?

multiverse theory, anything similiar to that explains a lot.
BUT WAIT. ITS JUST A THEORY. lets ignore it instead.


Whether or not you believe in God, you must believe this. When we as a species abandon our trust in the power greater than us, we abandon our sense of accountability.

wrong. i can prove this.
if god told you to eat a baby alive, would you?
therefore morality does not come from god. if morality doesnt come from god, he cannot judge, jury and EXECUTION-ATE!! - plato 236504358 b.c. and yet people still thinks morality comes from god. this thinking is what results in jihad and crusades. GOD WILLS IT THEREFORE I SLAUGHTER A VILLAGE


Faith ... all faiths … are admonitions that there is something we cannot understand, something to which we are accountable . . . With faith we are accountable to each other, to ourselves, and to a higher truth. Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed. If the outside world could see this church as I do ... looking beyond the ritual of these walls . . . they would see a modern miracle... a brotherhood of imperfect, simple souls wanting only to be a voice of compassion in a world spinning out of control. . . .

touching. but... if man is flawed the word he writes/translates is flawed. if the major pillar of a religion is its text and it is flawed as it is written by man then... is not the entire religious reason under strain?

Are we obsolete?” “Are these men dinosaurs? Am I? Does the world really need a voice for the poor, the weak, the oppressed, the unborn child? Do we really need souls like these who, though imperfect, spend their lives imploring each of us to read the signposts of morality and not lose our way?

i deem my own morality, i will not kill someone because that voice in my head claims to be god and tells me to. that would be schizophrenia. my own morality is imbued by the way i live and the culture and life i experience. follow jesus and sell off ALL your worldly possession and give proceeds to the poor. or. live a good life and it will eventually rub off and result in a better world rather then a lot of currency and a lot of people who are homeless and require help due to their goodwill.

/leaves topic for good.


1. aww, absolutely pathetic to leave this and not come back

2. oooh tugging at the heartstrings, thats a new approach for you

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