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 Post subject: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:10 am 
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I will be pro here (shocker?)


who will take up the anti?

Also we'd need a mod

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:57 am 
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Did I hear a ring? I would be happy to your moderator of today, that is, if you want me :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Jasper Alexander wrote:
Did I hear a ring? I would be happy to your moderator of today, that is, if you want me :lol:



Of course, now i need an opposer >.>

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Sure, I'll be apposing.


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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:23 pm 
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Daganev wrote:
Sure, I'll be apposing.



Excellent, well, im not sure how this works, so, go ahead, and state ur arguement.

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Well, lets start this off simply.

1. What is a "marriage"?

Dictionary: mar·riage (măr'ĭj) pronunciation

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
n.

1.
1. The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.
2. The state of being married; wedlock.
3. A common-law marriage.
4. A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: a same-sex marriage.
2. A wedding.
3. A close union: “the most successful marriage of beauty and blood in mainstream comics” (Lloyd Rose).
4. Games. The combination of the king and queen of the same suit, as in pinochle.


2. What types of marriages exist in various societies?
Typically people talk of just 3 types of marriages:
Polygamy, monogamy, and polyandry

These 3 types of marriage are defined as, 1 man - many women, 1 man - 1 woman, 1 woman - many men.

3. Other types of marriage:
Getting married to a plant:
Some parts of India follow a custom in which the groom is required to marry with an auspicious plant called Tulsi before a second marriage to overcome inauspicious predictions about the health of the husband. This also applies if the prospective wife is considered to be 'bad luck' or a 'bad omen' astrologically. However, the relationship is not consummated and does not affect their ability to remarry later. One should note that this is not a norm found across the entire Indian sub-continent.

# Ghost marriage -(among the Nuer of Southern Sudan)- a woman marries a man from the tribe that died before he could marry.
# Group marriage - A form of polygamous marriage in which more than one man and more than one woman form a family unit, and all members of the marriage share parental responsibility for any children arising from the marriage
same-sex marriage - Marriage between two people who are of the same sex.
open marriage - A marriage in which the partners agree that each is free to engage in extramarital sexual relationships, without regarding this as sexual infidelity.
Human-animal marriage - A marriage between a human and a non-human animal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-animal_marriage

My argument has basically two key components.

A. The first definition of marriage is between a Husband and a Wife. These terms are meaningless with a same sex marriage. This shows us, that the concept of marriage, and Husbands and Wives, is defined by the joining of opposite sexes. Even while different cultures have different details of what exactly a "marriage" is, in common understanding of the term, all of been defined as the joining of opposite sexes.

B. In cases where the joining of the opposite sexes are not recognized, these types of marriages have been put aside as either deviant, immoral (by some), or symbolic in nature only.

If one wishes for the law to recognize some extra-cultural marriages, then one must be willing and advocating for the recognition of ALL marriages. By extra-cultural, I refer specifically to marriages that the country in question has not historically recognized as being valid.

It would be illogical and immoral to open up the legal definition of marriage to include some but not all variants.


edit: p.s. I labeled my arguments with numbers and letters, so you can just refer to those instead of quoting entire posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Aye, marriage is considered to be between a man and a woman, but who are we to tell these people how to live? In the USA, there are equal rights for all, So why should homosexuals be excluded? We live in a more simple time. I am a VERY devout Christian, but i have no bussiness in there lives. Also, if a guy wants to marry a plant, let him. He does what he does. I don't care if u have if ur a female with 1 husband, 1 wife, or 40. As long as all involved are happy, why stop them?

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:11 pm 
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Nobody is stopping anybody from doing what they want. As you said, we live in a free country.

Let all who wish to do so be involved in a domestic partnership. Sometimes a nurse would wish to be in a domestic partnership with their patient. Let them do so, if it makes them happy.


But this debate is not about making people happy, it is a debate about what it means to have a legally recognized marriage.

If you agree that a man should be allowed to marry his horse, or a woman be allowed to marry a person who is dead, then I think we can agree and the debate is over.

However, during the state supreme court trial in California, a judge suggested that the term "marriage" be removed from State law all together, and in all places it will be replaced with the term "domestic partnership." This idea was rejected by the lawyer supporting "same sex marriage." (I'll have to find the exact quote for that.)

edit: damn, do you know how hard it is to find a specific quote on this topic.. ouch!

edit2: I wouldn't think your personal religious preferences would matter one way or another.


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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:33 pm 
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yes, but as i said in the other debate, a "domestic partnership" is not the same as marriage. In a "Domestic partnership" if one "partner" is hospitalized, then the other cannot visit, and has no right to their possesions should, God forbid, they pass away. Why then, shouldn't the gov. legalized same-sex marriage? IF the government is for the people, by the people, why are homosexuals not included in that equation? Why must they pay their taxes and abide by the law, but not be allowed to visit eachother in the hospital? Or file joint income on their taxes? If they aren't allowed to be married, and have the same rights as every1 else, why not just have them stop paying taxes? I mean, they pay them because they want to be, and are citizens of the United States. So why not be granted the same rights as everyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Same-Sex marriage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:35 am 
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Sorry, but what you wrote just isn't true.

If it is true, then the issue is the hospital laws and the funeral laws, and has nothing to do with same sex marriage.

There are plenty of people in the world who are "like family" to other people. There is no reason why any of these people should be discriminated against when it comes to funerals or hospitals.

For example:
Quote:
But the leadership of Salt Lake City, led by Democratic Mayor Ralph Becker (who calls himself the “guide” of the mutual commitments program), actually avoided specifically helping same-sex couples. Instead they created a mutual commitments registry for all adult couples ineligible to marry - including roommates, parents with adult dependents, and best friends. That helps same-sex couples without violating the constitution, and helps other worthy relationships as well.


Are you trying to argue that homosexual partners deserve more rights than two best friends or two roommates or parents with adult dependents? (such as those 30 year old gamers who still live in their parent's basement :) )

Secondly... Clearly a "domestic partnership" is not the same as a marriage. A marriage is a union between a minimum of two people of the opposite sex. A domestic partnership is any relationship where two or more people share a domestic setting.


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