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 Post subject: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:54 pm 
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As I see many people say that using Amour:Range= 3:7 is the best, but I find that if we use same resources to produce army, using only damage army is ever better than the 3-7 mix of amour and range.

Can anyone tell me why damage units are not preferred to be used?


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Damage units are best when you have an equal battle at hand but are not that useful in mass battles
Say I have 90 range tanks and 10 armor and you have 90 damage tanks and 10 armor, what happens is my range gets the first attack so your armor and some damage units are already destroyed before they finally attack since damage attack second in a battle

Although this is a highly debatable topic, range is still prefered to damage though I think its due to individual preferance
What I do is I create maximum range, as much as I can with few supporting armor and when the overheads get too high and range become too expensive for me I then shift over to damage. To me this has been pretty deadly so far
Or you can limit as well, I sometimes say for every 3 pure squads of range I have, I create 1 squad of damage so if I have 90 range infantry, I create 30 damage infantry, etc...

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Many players use damage in their squads. While damage might be useful when you face people that have only armor, you’ll have a hard time fighting someone with range. If someone sends enough range, they can take out your damage without you doing ANY damage to them. Most people will always try to have rounds that last only 1 round, so that they take minimum losses. In battles like these, your damage will be just useless. Therefore, I think people shouldn’t make damage, but should go for a mix of range and armor. Damage might work initially when many people don’t have range yet, but in the long run and in the big battles it just fails.
Damage should only be used for spams, it can be effective in equal battles lasting 3 rounds or more but those are not the kinds of battles you should be fighting.

You can always come up with your own ratios, but most people tend to go for 21-9 for inf, 11-4 for vehicles and 7-3 for heavies. 21/11/7 being range, 9/4/3 being armor. It’s been tested over and over again, these are the best ratios. Of course a small change won’t make that much of a difference, for example going 22/8 or 20/10 for inf or 10/5 for vehicles.
There is no "best chassis" only the chassis that best suits your style of playing.

I think this topic should be moved to the "Players Helping Players" thread

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:30 pm 
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qqarman wrote:
As I see many people say that using Amour:Range= 3:7 is the best, but I find that if we use same resources to produce army, using only damage army is ever better than the 3-7 mix of amour and range.

Can anyone tell me why damage units are not preferred to be used?

while it maybe true that it can defeat the normal 3:7 build, in normal circumstances it will have a lot of loss and thus is not preferred.

the reason why 3:7 is chosen as the best build in general, is that it can maximize the damage while minimize the loss when outnumbering the enemy (which is wat everyone should aim at).

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:04 am 
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Comparing 7:3 (r:a) squads to damage builds on a 1 squad vs 1 squad ratio fails to grasp why 7:3 is used.

In the long term, any player should aim for maximum battle efficiency. The best way to achieve this, is to make sure all of your battles end in 1-2 rounds (preferably 1). Only in extreme situations (such as a rare opportunity to kill a large hostile force) should a player deliberately enter a 3+ round battle.

Let's use tanks as an example: Range units deal 12 damage per round, damage units deal 18 damage per round.

Round one:
Range unit fires and deals 12 damage (total of 12 damage)
Damage unit cannot fire yet

Round two:
Range unit fires and deals 12 damage (total of 24 damage)
Damage unit fires and deals 18 damage (total of 18 damage)

Round three:
Range unit fires and deals 12 damage (total of 36 damage)
Damage unit fires and deals 18 damage (total of 36 damage)

Round four:
Range unit fires and deals 12 damage (total of 48 damage)
Damage unit fires and deals 18 damage (total of 54 damage)

My point? A battle has to last for four rounds for a damage unit to actually outperform range. If your battles are lasting for that many rounds, then your battle efficiency is terrible. Four round battles are the sort of battles in which all of your armour and a serious chunk of your 'damage dealing' (be they range or damage) units are killed.

So, in conclusion, that damage based squad might be cheaper and even stronger in a 1 squad vs 1 squad scenario, but if you always aim for 4+ round battles (the only battles in which damage is better) then the cheapness of your squads will do little to offset the cost of almost completely rebuilding every squad you send into a battle.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:21 am 
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George can u plz explain ur 2nd paragraph with an example ?
Tom can u explain in more detail?
Kish8 can u explain with another type of chassis?

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:25 am 
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Hitmo wrote:
George can u plz explain ur 2nd paragraph with an example ?
Tom can u explain in more detail?
Kish8 can u explain with another type of chassis?

What are you unclear on? I may be able too explain for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:46 am 
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1) Here is the explanation for Tom's post but I believe he responded very properly, that is why I do not see why I need to set an example to simplify things, anyway ...

Spoiler:
Image


A normal armor unit has 8 HP (hit points), 2 AP (attack points), and 1 range. It costs 100 metal.
A damage unit has 6 HP, 6 AP and 2 range. 150 metal and 50 oil
A range unit has 4 HP, 4 AP and 3 range. 200 metal and 100 oil

If you look at the spoiler above, you will of course see that the damage units have the most attack points. This is true, although what you also need to consider is the range. The higher the range is, the earlier in the battles they get to fire. Battles are divided in rounds. The first round, only the units with the highest range get to fire. So before a damage unit or armor unit attack, the range unit attacks because as you can notice it has 3 range. The round after that, both the range and the damage unit attack. Then the round after that, all of them attack. If you have enough range units and your opponent only has damage units, it might be possible that you kill all his damage units in the first round and your units don’t take any damage at all. Another important element to know is that armor units always get attacked first, damage units get attacked after and range units get attacked last. For example if you send 100 armor and 2 damage units into battle, your damage units will always be the last to die.

What most good players do however is send both armor and range into battle. The armor units always take the first hits, which is good because they have 8 HP for only 100 gold. This means you pay 100/8=12.5 gold per HP. If you would send only range into combat and they would take all the damage, you would be paying 200/4=50 gold per HP. (200 because range units cost 200 gold, 4 because they have 4 HP). If you send armor and range units into battle, your expensive range units will do most of the damage, while your cheap armor units take all the damage from your opponent.

This is a bit complicated, just think of it as the armor units being in the front and the range units being in the back. The front protects the back, while the back try to do as much damage as possible to the opponent.

When you know this, you know most of the game mechanics. If you’re wondering how much attacks and hit points vehicles and heavy units have, just multiply the infantry values by 2 for vehicles, and multiply them by 3 for heavy units. Some people like to go infantry, some like to go vehicles and some like to go heavies. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, what you should know is that infantry get a 25% bonus against vehicles, and vehicles get a 25% bonus against heavies. Heavies don’t get any bonus.

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2) Here is the explanation for the first paragraph of my post:

Spoiler:
Image
Defender only used damage, combined with a spy attack they defender units are now at 1 HP


The explanation for the second paragraph:

Spoiler:
Image


As you can notice in the spoiler above, there is not the hell of a difference between the 21/9 and the 22/8 ratio and you know, once in a while someone has to fantasize and create a new ratio. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:03 pm 
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The simplified version is this -
Damage units only do more damage than Range units in battles that last for at least 4 rounds.
Look at your recent battle reports, and see how many last 4 rounds or more. It's probably not many. Also, your losses in those battles are probably massive. That is why damage based squads aren't great.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing Amour/Damage/Range
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:09 am 
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I just went to battle simulator
I took 50 armor 50 damage & 50 range to attackers
then i took 75 armor & 75 range to defenders
result was attackers won the battle

Then i took 50 armor 50 damage & 50 range to defenders
then took 75 armor & 75 range to attackers
in this case too attackers won.
In both cases attackers & defenders had infantary
How's this possible?


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