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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:11 pm 
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ninja0 wrote:
I say to fix it, we limit the metal income per tick to: 23500 metal per tick.

5000 for emergency
6000 for max light metal boost
12000 for max heavy metal boost
500 for normal income

If you have a good income (higher than 500 per tick), why boost so much? That's just over boosting and if you have that high of an income, you'd be powerful, and boosting a lot makes it pointless.

I think it's better than getting
CodeoftheSith wrote:

So, 42000+84000=126000 metal, in a single tick :!:


it's more for every 12 ticks, but at least it's not all in a tick.


i actually like this idea where there is a maximum amount of resources for people to gain per tick. however as for the normal income...ive had eras where i make 900 per tick so i dont think normal income should be limited :)

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:12 pm 
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sorry simmen,

I guess I wasn't communicating effectively.. I wasn't meaning to be off topic with my suggestions but rather to solve your problem in a different way.

Reading the responses to your updates to solve an issue leaves me with a summary that people want to be able to spend money on reds to gain an advantage and there is debate about how much of an advantage is acceptable and to what extent a player can work around cool downs and resource limits... Then there is some discussion about how hard it is to code the software to prevent the "abuse"

What people are saying seems to me to be that at the end of the day it boils down to more people will play if the game is more fun and they feel able to compete without the ability of someone to use money to gain a vast advantage quickly. However, if money doesn't provide a worthwhile advantage the game dies through lack of financial support and again players reduce.

The proposed updates are an attempt to strike a good balance.

My suggestions are an attempt to look at ways to achieve the goals of these proposed updates in a different way and I should have made that clearer. In a nutshell they are to get the top players/alliances to engage each other more.

such a compromise would hopefully keep both the big spenders and those who feel "bought out" of any meaningful competition happy.


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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:39 pm 
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dilmun wrote:

People where i'm playing complain about the dominance of one alliance yet they don't rebel every 72 ticks forcing the conquerer to spend resources ending the rebellion... maybe the solution is to have an auto rebel (maybe at 90 ticks) as standard with the option to not rebel.

While in theory it sounds as though it would help stop farming all any farmer would do is just send another spam unit. As for actual players. There is almost no way you'd be able to defeat your conqueror (in most cases) 3 or 4 days after you were conquered. You'd likely have at most 5 squads (and that's pushing it) and would quickly be quelled.

I was thinking early on in the game that the alliances in the top 10 or top 5 need to conquer a colony in another top 10 or top 5 alliance every say 72 or 96 or 110 ticks or else find 30% of their conquests are liberated...

Since most top alliances start far away from each other this is far from workable. Those that do start in close proximity do either fight or strike a deal. But in any case BD can't tell you who to fight. What if you aren't strong enough to take them on right now? What if the only top 5 or 10 conquer is across the map?


Currently is pretty silly (and boring?) when the top alliance spends most of its time sending one squad to conquer a low rank. i can see why when the tax coming in is far less than the cost of conquering a stronger colony. maybe tax should be more realistic to cover costs or maybe attacking army that wins gets both oil and metal salvaged from battle at a far better rate than currently and loser gets some at existing rate?

This would just increase farming, currently you get 10% tax. So if you conquer 10 colonies you make nearly double (of course it's usually a bit less) what you would normally. It's tick 115 in E4 and I currently have 4 conquers and if I hadn't been sniped I'd have 3 more. At that rate I could be making 3X what my colony "should" make by tick 200. So I think it's pretty much fine

maybe you could increase the tax received when an alliance of 6 or more players is completely conquered by another as an incentive for competition. perhaps receiving energy in tax too in such circumstances...

This would create "Farmed alliances" but I do like the idea of rewarding more for taking out whole alliances. However as I actually kind of proposed in the past gaining energy would be a tremendous boost for players who "went around" the rules. And actually would make rebelling extremely difficult when your conquer can zip all over because now they're making 20E per tick. A bonus for that conquering the majority of an alliance OK, an energy bonus... No Way.

if you want to give non boosters a chance to compete increase wrecks and decrease the reward to high boosting players for capturing a wreck?


This would be penalizing players for paying the game. That's not right. Boosting is extra, and should be looked upon as such, there should never be a negative result to supporting the game.

I understand what your point is but there are several big issues with these suggestions. If you would like any further commentary on these suggestions, I advise you to make a topic solely for these. While I see how you tried to make them relevant, this thread is about the change that will take place. :)

And to those who are going to try to use my last response as a reason for the actual topic. Let me be perfectly clear. There should not be a negative consequence to boosting and supporting this great game. HOWEVER, just because you drop some change in the bucket you should not get carte blanche. There should be and are limits on the advantage you receive, and the fact that people have been circumventing these restrictions in the past, does not mean people should be continued to be allowed to do so. In fact it just shows that it needs to be corrected.

And one more thing... If this doesn't happen much, and it's not that rampant, and it doesn't give players that big of an advantage. Why are those who have been doing it so upset? And why are there this many of them? :?:

Just saying.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:45 pm 
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30 power instead of 20 will still drastically reduce the number of crystals in the world. Give some statistics on how many players on average get to 20 power (let's say 80%), and how many get to 30 power (let's say 70%) ... those numbers I just made up, but we could extrapolate that there would be a certain amount of less crystals on the world, meaning we would need to boost production (resource AND workers) from crystals to compensate for this.

Too often when updates are added, side effects are not considered, which further devolves the balance of the game.

The supporter limitations are not my concern, my concern is balance. Many people have many good reasons to dislike the token updates related to this... my concern here is that there are such more pressing concerns to address than when a newbie gets a crystal. Seriously now...

I realize that small steps are good, and that no matter what is added there will be things that can't be addressed all in one update... but the choices of what to address here simply make no sense compared to the probably 50ish things I've suggested to be added that the public would be FAR happier to see than any of these things.

Just something to think about... people need to see the game improving in some measurable way to keep spirits up, and this is not a way to go about that. I'm not going to be sensationalist and say this is the worst update ever, but really? Who cares about 20->30 power for crystals when we could add such simple things that drastically improve the ability for EVERYONE to enjoy the game? I see nothing here that let's people enjoy the game more, or play it more easily... I see a variable change, a rule change, and a new feature being added to combat token use.

It just makes little sense.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:50 pm 
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CodeoftheSith wrote:

So, 42000+84000=126000 metal, in a single tick :!:


dont think anybody here in battledawn do that.

still 14 good players vs one player.? ( donaters )

he will still losse with his big money.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:03 pm 
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ninja0 wrote:
I say to fix it, we limit the metal income per tick to: 23500 metal per tick.

5000 for emergency
6000 for max light metal boost
12000 for max heavy metal boost
500 for normal income

If you have a good income (higher than 500 per tick), why boost so much? That's just over boosting and if you have that high of an income, you'd be powerful, and boosting a lot makes it pointless.

I think it's better than getting
CodeoftheSith wrote:

So, 42000+84000=126000 metal, in a single tick :!:


it's more for every 12 ticks, but at least it's not all in a tick.


honestly i see no point on doing this y should there be a limit on how much metal u get in a tick if im makin 1k a tick and decided i want too boost all that cause i need the resources than its up to me.

there is also a time when u need to use other peoples boost mainly because u need the resources. alot of time in wars u need them to convert for energy cause 150 energy boost is nearly not enough. u need to replace armor units that you may have lot or to launch nukes at your enemy. plus you still forget that lots of boosters have 60+ squads so that costs so much oil that there own oil is enough to move them a small amount

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Quote:
If that's all you can see, then that's due to your lack of imagination.
You see spy attack, attack, spam, defend, run.
I see feints, stalling, isolating, resource depletion, and "no-win" decisions.


Thats not due to my lack of imagination. I can guarantee, there are very few tricks you can pull in war today. You might be articulate in describing tricks but they just translate into simple ingame moves like holding squads at bay, spamming mines and wells to reduce enemy income, faking an attack etc. These are all not extraordinary moves. Ive done it and so has every one else. They are very normal and infact quite dull in my opinion. There should be something more imaginative and innovative that someone can do ingame but today in the name of game balance a lot of things have been restricted. Also I guarantee you that in a round where I spend thousands of dollars, you will NEVER be able to beat me. Of course I do play in really good teams that are always available and play as a team. That will make it harder for you. Play this new server long enough, you will know what I am talking about.

Quote:
Just something to think about... people need to see the game improving in some measurable way to keep spirits up, and this is not a way to go about that. I'm not going to be sensationalist and say this is the worst update ever, but really? Who cares about 20->30 power for crystals when we could add such simple things that drastically improve the ability for EVERYONE to enjoy the game? I see nothing here that let's people enjoy the game more, or play it more easily... I see a variable change, a rule change, and a new feature being added to combat token use.

It just makes little sense.


Indeed. There are far more pressing issues at hand, and people are going in circles arguing about token use and a rule change. There is a thread that Kodak posted earlier with lots of inputs and changes made based on those suggestions will be far more welcome than dealing with "token farming" right now.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:45 pm 
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battle321 wrote:
I agree with Dameon of zamore, the 40power for a crystal is fine by me, but adding time to structures! one of the worst things i have ever heard


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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:27 am 
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you have the frist 100 ticks no trade.

if you got 15k metal people cant trade your more.
you can buyed the 30k cap. still if you got 15k metal you cant get more metal traded.

metal mine rank 3 you need to have to fight.
why whould they chance more?

think about it.



none trade frist 100 ticks. hold the mass boosting.
15k metal block. hold the mass boosting. littlebit then.
metal mine rank 3. hold the spammers.


also people say this add the crystal from 20 power to 40 power that will bring 20 % mabye 30% less crystals on earth,mars and fantasy.

that sucks;)

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:14 am 
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psg188 wrote:
Just something to think about... people need to see the game improving in some measurable way to keep spirits up, and this is not a way to go about that. I'm not going to be sensationalist and say this is the worst update ever, but really? Who cares about 20->30 power for crystals when we could add such simple things that drastically improve the ability for EVERYONE to enjoy the game? I see nothing here that let's people enjoy the game more, or play it more easily... I see a variable change, a rule change, and a new feature being added to combat token use.

It just makes little sense.

simmen wrote:
But the huge split in community forced us to take a decision. And once we took the decision we had to figure out how to enforce it.


ttotheoma wrote:
ninja0 wrote:
I say to fix it, we limit the metal income per tick to: 23500 metal per tick.

5000 for emergency
6000 for max light metal boost
12000 for max heavy metal boost
500 for normal income

If you have a good income (higher than 500 per tick), why boost so much? That's just over boosting and if you have that high of an income, you'd be powerful, and boosting a lot makes it pointless.

I think it's better than getting
CodeoftheSith wrote:

So, 42000+84000=126000 metal, in a single tick :!:


it's more for every 12 ticks, but at least it's not all in a tick.


honestly i see no point on doing this y should there be a limit on how much metal u get in a tick if im makin 1k a tick and decided i want too boost all that cause i need the resources than its up to me.

there is also a time when u need to use other peoples boost mainly because u need the resources. alot of time in wars u need them to convert for energy cause 150 energy boost is nearly not enough. u need to replace armor units that you may have lot or to launch nukes at your enemy. plus you still forget that lots of boosters have 60+ squads so that costs so much oil that there own oil is enough to move them a small amount

Then they would have to think TACTICAL about which units to move. Thank you for giving us an option on how to fight the trend of the ones with the most squads win!

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