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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:50 am 
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Just specifying that using China and Russia as examples is a total joke.


And how am I supposed to put myself in the shoes of Iraq? Someone doesn't know what the American media does to people. ;)


'Oh well big news, k. We killed Osama! Wow! Not like we've ever done anything! Yeah were great!'


No. Just no. Great they killed Osama. I'm happy. But why not kill George Bush as well? He deserves it more than Osama ever will, the intolerable idiot. Ruined more lives than Osama Bin Laden did, and he ruined a lot as we all know.


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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:05 am 
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the problem is not which one is used as an example, just imagine that someone invade ur country, protecting the peace that ur trusted government is supposed to protect. If I must say, it's a joke of a government to ask for others countries to help with a domestic problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:25 am 
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dylsupreme1 wrote:
Would the US not deserve it? Ferr3t, sorry but if you think the only reason were in the middle east is because of terrorism then you're sadly mistaken. And Jake, if you think Al Qaeda seeks freedom.................................


And this is the most unrealistic thing I've ever seen. What, would America's military force and allies just go out the window? Would China disregard the fact that without the US their economy would suck worse than ours does? Oh, and what about that old saying?

''You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.''

Every state has a militia and hundreds of millions of Americans own guns. Sure everybody would be untrained but they would outnumber any army 1,000 to 1. Besides, China simply wouldn't attack the US. It would be the most foolish thing they ever did. Best scenario, their economy totally collapses. Russia probably wouldn't hesitate to attack if they could but they lack the logistical capability to do any large scale attacks on the US.



And don't forget the obvious, any troop movement from big countries would be seen in the first 5 minutes, there would be no way to conceal it from the US and it's allies.


Al Qaeda hates us because we screwed them over, if we just stayed out of it to begin with we would be in a lot better shape, there are plenty of worse things in the world than the things in Iraq, and we aren't doing anything about that, so Ferr3t why is Iraq any different? Why do intervene with there internal affairs? but not that of lets say South Africa, where Genocide is taking place, white people are killed in mass numbers, why don't we save them? I don't think Al Qaeda Just wants freedom, but they we basically founded them, The U.S started this all, and where will it end? It won't.

How can we ever stop something without fixing ourselves? We shouldn't be the police of the world, who made it our burden? Thats all I wanted to say im done.. for now :P

Also, tbh I think we are both right in our own ways, yes it sucks that we can't always save those people, and sometimes we should but we can't afford it, and if we go down because of our 'helping out' then who's going to help when we are gone? Sure the UN will continue doing the best they can, but there will be a big hole.

The man, the 'leader' if there ever was one of the founding fathers, George Washington believed in isolationism, why not now? Why not peace, why not free trade with our pals, we don't have to be the police of the world... again thats all I wanted to say xD (for the last time)

Oh yeah, and dyl I totally agree. George Bush was the guy that started it all, "War on Terrorism" first of all terrorism is a broad term, that can have a variety of meanings, second how can you declare war on a idea? Isn't that like hitler in itself? (Ofc not as evil) and not only that but he used the terrorism pandemic to push things through like the patriot act, the U.S is falling into a totalitarian dictatorship and few care.

But then again Dyl, its called a metaphor, its to try and make you feel how the Iraqi people feel, as Aister pointed out xD

ANNNNDDDD

Ferr3t re watch the second video.

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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Okay I didnt read all the posts. They were too long. But when it comes to Iraq...

Iraq was formed by Saddam Hussein, who was in turn supported by the United States. Iran was also pro US before the 1979 revolution, but once the people overthrew the government and installed a Islamic regime that was largely anti american, Iraq invaded Iran backed by the United States.

Kuwait had heavily funded the eight-year-long Iraqi war against Iran. Kuwait's large-scale economic assistance to Iraq often triggered hostile Iranian actions against it. Iran repeatedly targeted Kuwaiti oil tankers in 1984 and fired weapons at Kuwaiti security personnel stationed on Bubiyan island in 1988.

By the time the Iran-Iraq war ended, Iraq was not in a financial position to repay the US$14 billion it borrowed from Kuwait to finance its war and requested Kuwait to forgive the debt. Iraq argued that the war had prevented the rise of Persian influence in the Arab World. However, Kuwait's reluctance to pardon the debt created strains in the relationship between the two Arab countries. During late 1989, several official meetings were held between the Kuwaiti and Iraqi leaders but they were unable to break the deadlock between the two.

This finally led to the invasion of Kuwait and the gulf war in 1991 after failed negotiations.

The invasion of Iraq, was something that was inevitable. After the 1991 Gulf war, there was no readjustment of relations, no peace deals, nothing. Iraq and the US faced off on a number of occassions, including in 1993 when the US launched 23 cruise missiles against Iraq in retaliation for an attempted assassination by Iraqi agents on former president of the United States George H.W. Bush while on a visit to Kuwait in April 13, 1993. In 2003, after deceiving not just the US citizens but the whole world, of possible WMD in Iraq, US invaded the country. The motives:

1. Political control of one of the largest oil producing nations in the world.
2. Economic control of the nation - Just see the Iraqi army arsenal and see how many British and American weapons they use now.
3. Control of natural resources like oil etc.,
4. Providing private contracts, to companies that have close ties with politicians, and over billing the government.

As for the Al-Qaeda, one has to understand that there WAS no Al-Qaeda in Iraq. A war torn nation, WILL attract terrorists, because that's where their enemy - the Americans are vulnerable. Doesnt mean Iraq was breeding terrorists. We all talk about how terroists brutalize people and all that. Sure they do. Sure they kill more people than the US army does. But that does that make it okay to invade a nation? That too based on lies? But look at some of the things the US army did:

Careful its EXTREMELY graphic.



Who is right and who is wrong? You can never tell. GTFO of WARS and out of Iraq is my suggestion. Sure enough as expected they have private military contractors still stationed in there. Again, the tax payer money going to corporations. The Iraq war is such a bad joke. People who support the war are as brainwashed as the very terrorists they claim to fight. Brainwashed by media controlled by the military industrial complex.

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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:45 pm 
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That. SO much. Especially the last paragraph.


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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:50 pm 
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BTW Liam needs to get his info from more authentic sources than bigoted channels like BBC, Fox News, CBS News etc., These are the kind of media controlled by the very corporation that sponsor war. They will obviously post news where they orchestrate people to say stuff like - Ask the americans to stay etc. Another excuse to keep troops there. Pffft.

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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Lol. I've always wanted to ask this. Mfreak, if you were an American citizen, who would you vote for this year?


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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:04 pm 
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I dont know much about American domestic politics and therefore my knowledge might be very limited. When I was in the US last year, all I could see was mud slinging. I mean those ads were more on TV than regular commercials lol.

But from what I hear, maybe Ron Paul ;)

I have heard about some stuff about religion and racism that I dont quite like about him too, but I think he is a libertarian. I am a Right libertarian myself. Therefore maybe his policies will come close to my ideals :)

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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:39 am 
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I thought that video was made by some anti war protest group. Found it far too flashy to be an informational video, too over the top dramatic. Skipped to the end... Wow, it's an election campaign video? I'm from europe so I don't see these USA election videos... But wow. They don't seem to treat the voters with much respect do they? That looks like some sort of movie trailer...

I feel sorry for american voters. I really do.


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 Post subject: Re: Imagine if... (Just imagine)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:51 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
I thought that video was made by some anti war protest group. Found it far too flashy to be an informational video, too over the top dramatic. Skipped to the end... Wow, it's an election campaign video? I'm from europe so I don't see these USA election videos... But wow. They don't seem to treat the voters with much respect do they? That looks like some sort of movie trailer...

I feel sorry for american voters. I really do.
I feel the same way. Oh the lies some people will shove down other's throats in the attempt to get some biased point across..Sad what the western world has come to, really.

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