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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:41 pm 
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Lets face it, the only reason 9/11 was so huge because it was the first large attack killing 1000s Americans on U.S soil and was destroying an icon of the U.S. If something on this scale happened Pakistan, it would make the news for one day and then be forgotten. The media coverage of 9/11 also helped change the number of deaths from statistics into real lives, anybody with a TV could watch helpless people be faced with the option to either burn to death or jump out of a window on the 60th floor.. There was no media coverage of Sommes and it happened a while ago, the younger gen wouldn't have been close to any of the people who died.
In short, 9/11 is thought of more than Sommers because:

1. The younger gen was not personaly attached to any of the people who gave their lives in Sommers, however 100s of dads and mums died in 9/11 leaving the current gen of children with a huge loss

2. There was no media coverage of Sommers. Nobody saw it, we do not know anybody who died, they are just random 'people' to the younger gen while in 9/11 we saw crying kids/widos/fathers who just lost something which was extreamly important and irreplacable to them.

3. The people who fought in Sommers understood that they were most likely going to lose their lives and were prepared for it, while the people in 9/11 were innocent civs.

4. Most importantly, the attack was on American soil and destroyed an icon which represented of the power that the U.S held.

So basicly, the younger gen lost nothing huge in WWI and WWII, yet kids, mums, dads, partiots and students ALL lost something out of 9/11.

Wrote this post up in about 10 minutes, sorry if it's a little rough =P

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:53 pm 
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Quote:
So basicly, the younger gen lost nothing huge in WWI and WWII, yet kids, mums, dads, partiots and students ALL lost something out of 9/11.


What do you mean that the younger generation lost nothing in the two wars?!

Dude WW2 almost 90 percent of Europes Jews were exterminated. You cant compare these wars with 9/11. The wars were much more severe and were much more important.

You have to understand the difference in dynamics of press, communication etc back in the days of WW1 and today. Back in those days there were no computers, no internet. There were no live reports. Only newspapers and radios. If any World war was happening today, it would be very much different.

Its simply just that. Media was not as developed as it is today.

Also, today 9/11 is mostly war propaganda. The very reason that it is propaganda is why we hear about it in every nook and corner of the world.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:15 pm 
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Alright. I tried and tried to with hold my own voice in this matter, but I can only force myself into silence so long when I feel strongly about something.

I think that if you are going to have this conversation, you should dig into it and see it for what it was, and how convenient the timing was. Moreover, one should pay attention not only to the events since then, but events going as far back as WW2, and how the industrialization of war become commonplace in the USA since then.

Go back and look at President Eisenhower's farewell speech on January 17th 1961. He was president after WWII and saw what was born of that war, and how it was already beginning to grow very powerful. He was the first man to coin the term "military industrial complex", and for good reason. I could write a book on what took place leading up to this speech, but for reasons of condensing this, lets look at what took place after WWII and the Korean War, and focus in on Vietnam, which bears striking parallels to the debacle the MIC (military industrial complex) has us in now.

Vietnam was the first war in the history of the U.S.A. where things started to become consolidated. By this, I mean that we began to see that singular corporate entities were beginning to be used in the production of guns, aircraft, helicopters, tanks and pretty much everything related to war. This is precisely what Eisenhower was referring to when he coined the 'MIC' term.

At the same time, the Bush family was making leaps and bounds in the intelligence and political community, after making a TON of money off of the Nazis around WWII. This is particularly true when referring to G.W.s grandaddy (Prescott Bush), who had his banking institution seized by Hoover and the FBI for trading with the enemy! Again, you have the internet. Use it.

JFK was not sympathetic to the MIC, and was not one to let them simply go over his head to get their way. Do some research into the "Bay Of Pigs" (Cuba) invasion as well as JFK's plan to pull out of Vietnam. You will see that in the process of those two acts alone, he stepped on the toes of the CIA (whom Herbert Walker Bush was a high ranking member AND in Dallas the very morning JFK was killed, even though he claims that he "doesn't recall where he was at the time"), as well as the MIC who stood to make 100 King's fortunes off of helicopter, aircraft, gun production, as well as many other possible contracts. It is important at this time too to realize that Bell Helicopter, Boeing (skunkworks) and several other of these entities are also based right out of (you guessed it) Dallas /Ft Worth.

Anyway, you can see where that is going, and then look at what happened with the Warren Commission. Look at the investigation, and the chaos that ensued, and how the Warren Commission counted on the fact that so many would, simply out of respect, refrain from dissenting against their official story. To this day, they argue the "magic bullet" theory that a single bullet could bounce around a car and cause 7 different injuries that defy scientific explanation, and then come out looking like:


Image

Yea right. :roll: Anyone else see a problem here?

So, obviously this made an example of anyone in the political community whom dissented against the will of the MIC,and they indeed got their way when the
Gulf of Tonkin incident allegedly took place, and was used as an excuse to commit our full force to Vietnam in response. Of course, in 2001, the NSA finally came out and admitted that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was completely fabricated, but said that they were just "covering up inaccurate intelligence". Maybe that statement would hold water if almost 2 million people had not lost their lives as a result, but to these people, lives are unimportant. Money and power is all that matters. It is this very fact that is the most important to realize when you look at the events on 9/11.

There is alot more that I am leaving out, and much of it is just as disheartening as this. Especially when you consider the fact that so few are truly educated about these things, but then again, that is part of the paradigm. Knowledge truly is power. Especially so when you can harness the cult of personality in the people, and can indoctrinate them into instantly dismissing anyone whom questions such things as "conspiracy nuts" etc., which is exactly what so many do! Truth has been demonized. Right now, the American people are taught to sit down, shut up, and question nothing. Otherwise you are a conspiracy nut, dont support our troops, are racist, and are unpatriotic.



Now lets fast forward to the late 1990's. At this point the MIC and CIA are buddy buddy, and through the previous administration in Washington, they were allowed a more direct hand in the political structure of our country through the process of lobbying. Now the MIC are free to simply throw their money around and use it to exert influence over not only the politicians, but the corporate-owned media as well.

Now, these people no longer fear us. They know we arent paying enough attention to exert our power over goverment. Especially true since their money allows them the power to dictate what the media tells the people. If they don't want you to know something at that point, you wont. And what you do know at that point in the USA, is exactly what they tell you. Combine this with the fact that they have already tried and tested their cover up machine, and have completely refined their tactic of fabricating evidence to justify just about anything, well you have the perfect mix. Now they know they have the reigns. Now they know they can trick the American people into just about anything.

Come the late 1990's there was a group of people representing the MIC in various ways, who also had gusto in Washington, that put together a group called the
PNAC. The PNAC clearly outlined what the MIC wanted for America, and how they wanted to go about it. The only problem, they knew, was that they were never going to get the people to go along with it. Not without some sort of large crisis which could be used to point the finger...well...in pretty much any direction they saw fit! They knew they wanted war. They knew they wanted perpetual war. In a nutshell, the PNAC wanted global domination. However, how do you get the people to rally behind global domination? The American people at the time were largely content, and wanted no conflict.

The PNAC knew they had to gain support from the people before proceeding. This is why the PNAC documents call for "some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" in order to justify the cause. It just so happens, that is exactly what they got.

Now, considering the book you just read :lol: , I want you to also consider what has become of the USA in the time since 2001. Look around.

Now we have the TSA which gropes you, and puts you into a backscatter x ray machine any time you want to fly into or out of the USA. This is done under the guise of making us safer, but in the 10 years since 2001, they have found nothing, prevented nothing, and everything they have done has been completely reactive. Even the founder of the TSA
now admits its failure and uselessness. However, the TSA has become a 9 billion dollar a year enterprise, and another branch of the MIC just the same.

Look at the memorial service in New York. You have the corporate media rattling on about "credible, but unsubstantiated chatter" about something, but of course, nothing happens. The only thing that happened is alot of fear mongering by the media talking heads, and alot of vulgar displays of power on the part of the police in New York. You really saw one step below martial law on the streets of New York this last weekend.

Also, look at the memorial service itself. How is it that on the 10 year anniversary of this event, those first responders whom risked their lives and lost their friends and companions rushing to the scene to help, we not only not invited to the event, but barred from participating altogether?! Do you not see what has taken place here?! This is the equivalent of the MIC giving these men and women the middle finger for talking too much! Look around. The internet is littered with people who WERE THERE! IN THE BUILDINGS OR RIGHT AT THE BASE OF THEM when everything took place. They know what they saw. They described it. The questioned the official story because it didnt make sense. Because of this, they have been smacked down, denied health care for issues stemming from being a first responder that day, and completely denied their right to participate in a memorial service FOR THEM AND THEIR FALLEN COMERADES!!!

How do you hold a memorial for someone, and then tell them they are not welcome? Of course, CNN said nothing about this.

Since 2001, our freedom has been eroded exponentially here in the USA, all in the name of 'making us safer'. Our privacy has been eroded, and our phones can now be tapped without a warrant in the name of "making us safer". Now Habeus Corpus has been eroded in the name of "making us safer". Elected officials get away with murder by lying to the american people to justify war in the name of "making us safer". Now Posse Comatatus has been eroded in the name of "making us safer". The very constitution of this country is completely ignored by elected officials in foreign policy, and then later justified by saying that it "makes us safer".


My take in all of this?

Many US citizens do not even know that 3 buildings fell that day. Not 2. Let alone do they know that Larry Silverstein was filmed stating that he
"gave the order to pull the building" that day (which he now denies). Several demolitions experts have come forward stating that there is no way they could do such an expert demo job in one day. That their own experienced teams of demo experts would need 2 weeks at best to plan the same demolition so well.

Many people fail to realize that there is zero evidence that any plane crashed in a field in PA (flight 93). There has only ever been one news story that showed any footage, and it was aired twice the first day, and pulled from programming never to be aired again on TV. Thank goodness someone thought this was funky too, and decided to record it. You can see for yourself, the crater allegedly left by this plane is no bigger than a full size truck, and no debris any larger "than a phone book"




This is what a crash site should look like: (the following is a 737 after crashing at high speeds)

Image

Here is the alleged crash site in PA supposedly caused by flight 93:

Image

Anyone else see a problem here?



In this case, just like in the Warren Commission, the media and propaganda machines have succeeded in demonizing truth, and anyone who seeks it. Now, freedom of speech is dead if it is deemed disturbing to others, and the people of the USA are being acclimated to what it is like to live in a police state. We are getting accustomed to such vulgar displays of power as were exerten in NYC this last weekend, and being told that we have to accept it in order to be safe.





It was said by Benjamin Franklin that "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."


Lets say that you buy into the official story. That you simply cannot believe that human beings have so much propensity for evil, or so much desire for money and power that they could be capable of even knowingly allowing such things to happen, if not having a direct hand in it. Let us look at the last 10 years based on something G.W. said after 9/11.

G.W. claimed that the "terrorists hate our freedoms".

Look around you. Look at what is happening to our great nation as we speak. As we dump trillions into wars we know can never end, and go broke in the process...As we are trained to accept riot gear police with automatic weapons on streetcorners in the name of making us safer...as our freedoms are eroded by the patriot act in ways that Orwell predicted in writing his novel "1984"...as the TSA gropes children checking for bombs at the airport...As the media panders fear to us to remind why we need all of these things...


It appears to me that if what G.W. said had any truth to it, then it is safe to say...

The "terrorists" have won.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:35 pm 
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Why is this even a debate? The people that died in that building didnt get paid extra because of the chance of a plane hitting them? they never expected to have their whole building collapse on top of them, and they never expected to have to jump 80+ stories to their deaths, wars are always remembered they are written documented and learned from, these people give their lives for their country willingly.

The people that died on 9/11 didnt want to give up their lives, the people on those planes didnt want their lives to be incenerated in a split second.
Of course it is remembers more now, it is much more relevent to todays problems in the world, all the battles of their past have their time of memory and this just like any other catastrophic event has its mark in history too.

Sure there wasnt as many deaths as in war but a gunshot kills you much more quickly than being burned alive by 1000+ degree fire, of the fall from an 80+ story building, the terror these people felt was unimaginable.

Put yourself in there shoes, how would you feel if you was one of the 3k people trapped in a building on fire and the fire is 30 floors below you, you're on the 130th floor, what can you do? what terror would be coursing through your veins?

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:18 pm 
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No one is debating that this is tragic. No one is debating that it was horrible. No one is debating that it was indeed horrible and that people were murdered that day.

However, if the truth is not found and the myth that a boogeyman hiding in caves half a world away was to blame for this, when even the CIA knew at the end of the 1990s that the man could not be more than a few minutes away from a kidney dialysis machine and could hardly walk, or that 19 Saudi Hijackers (many of which have turned up alive and well in the middle east since then) carried this operation out, is exposed...NONE of those tragic deaths will be atoned for in justice.

Eroding the freedoms of people and trampling their constitution in the name of making others safer in no way is justice for those poor people whom were murdered. Neither is lying about the involvement of other countries in the event, just to gain momentum for your own agenda.

It says alot about a society when they are willing to impeach a president for "unlawful sexual acts", but the one who lies blatantly to the people, fabricates evidence, advocates torture, and passes unconstitutional legislation is not only heralded, but he gets a second term...

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Seth wrote:
Here is the alleged crash site in PA supposedly caused by flight 93:

Image

Anyone else see a problem here?


I believe that that type of airplane would explode upon impact, burning up everything. I'm not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:31 pm 
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No. The image posted directly above it was also a 737 crash.

You really believe that a plane crashes and becomes magical clown confetti?

Here is another plane crash at Mt. Trelese, which was also known to have hit the hillside at high speeds.


Image

Again, the plane is completely destroyed, but the debris still exists. In the PA crash site, all you have is some small debris and a smoking hole in the ground. NOTHING to indicate a boeing hit that site.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:33 pm 
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oh, ok. How odd.....

PS: Seth, could you check out this please? http://www.battledawn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=13578

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:10 pm 
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Quote:
The PNAC knew they had to gain support from the people before proceeding. This is why the PNAC documents call for "some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" in order to justify the cause. It just so happens, that is exactly what they got.


Very well said Seth. This 9/11 was sort of a coup where the MIC finally took over a democratic government. I posted a link before and if you take a look, you will see that panelists (former retd military personnel), met together with pentagon officials before going on air. An investigation by a journalist for 2 years revealed this fact.

What they have always done is, project America as being vulnerable. Always. When in reality the US has/had no existential threat. And then, create an event like 9/11 and use the resulting surge of nationalism to their advantage, by using the media as a weapon. Then take away people's freedom using laws like the patriot act and what not, slowly negating the "need" for public opinion that actually drives a democracy (They are atleast in the process of doing it). And then they got what they wanted - a war, and a few are now profiteering from it while the rest go broke and suffer. Quite shameful.

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 Post subject: Re: 9/11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Seth in all that is going on in this you remind me of a show i watch it is called Glen Beck i am wondering if you are watching this show as well be cause it is stated as similar the things that the USA power is and who is in control.

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