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Who's side are you on?
Left wing 60%  60%  [ 6 ]
Right wing 40%  40%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 10
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 Post subject: Re: Who's side are you on?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:39 pm 
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sure, im good with that one. REMEMBER
SOCIALISM =/= COMMUNISM. I WANT TO MAKE THIS LOUD AND CLEAR.

Yes, but as stated by Karl Marx, socialism is a step towards communism. I cannot talk about socialism without mentioning what the end of too much socialism equals.

and if you have actually read it, so too is capitalism, you cant have communism without capitalism according to marx. fail logic on your part.
Quote:
Karl Marx Sell a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish, you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.


Why? Due to McCarthyism that bred a phobia (an irrational fear) of all things socialism since apparently socialism = communism, communism = Pol Pot. Greece has multifaceted problems, cant be purely associated with socialism. Russia? dont you mean USSR. China = fascist IMO. germany? eh?

Let's look at McCarthyism for a second. Was it really an irrational fear? At the time that McCarthyism began the populous of America feared the implications of more socialism which ended to communism because of how many people died under Stalin's rule. So you're telling me having a fear over millions of people dying is an irrational fear? If we take a look at the numbers, more people died under Stalin's socialistic and communistic ideals then did die in the Holocaust. McCarthy was a senator who wanted to expose politicians who were really wanting America to end up a communist nation. I'm not telling you the way McCarthy went about this was right, but I am glad it happened. Many politicians were exposed and had high offices in America. They were thrown out by the people. Fearing a government idealism that ends with millions of people dying is not irrational.

thats the thing see, Stalin didnt do what marx said, he made his own brand of communism, it was called "stalinism", Mao has his own form of tweaked communism, it was called "maoism".
they were thrown out by the people who were manipulated, lied to, coerced and fear mongered, reminds me of fox news...
they removed unions, Australia almost passed a referendum (only barely fought it off) that could have changed a democratic country into a dictatorship as anyone accused of being "overly left" could be jailed. all parties accused of being "overly left" could be instantly dismantled as the referendum would "fix" the constitution. "Reds under the beds" grew a cancerous idea that anything close to resembling socialism is unpatriotic or evil or maligned. stalin screwed up, he thought collectivisation would fix everything when no data supported it. mao screwed up, he thought that getting all the doctors, indeed, everyone to go work in the fields would be a good idea, he screwed up, these are "dictators" blinded by idealism of communism that screwed up. and McCarthy played upon like a genius, anyone disagree? COMMUNIST PIG, KILL AT ONCE. as of yet, there is no true communism based upon the teachings of marx, and in the current economic state, there wont ever be as globalism kicks in harder and harder. so, no real COMMUNISM COMMUNISM, only people disillusioned with their own grandeur and power.


awwww you were sneaky and were trying to tie communism to socialism :/
it doesnt matter what you want, it matters what society wants. if society needs childcare services, even if you dont have a child, you help foot the bill. you can change this by voting accordingly to whoever supports your polemic. but if you disagree, and 99% of society wants it, well, it sucks to be you. if you only wanted to provide for what you wanted then medicine would fail.
"WHO NEEDS CANCER WARDS, I DONT HAVE CANCER, THEM PARASITES TAKING ALL MA MONEYS. THOSE CHILDREN WITH LEUKEMIA ARE SUCKING ME DRY!!"
besides, be accurate in your points - What bureaus? CIA? i dislike the CIA.
in short. welcome to society. where the burdens and problems are shared since you are a society. that road is your road, that same road is our road.

if you dislike current policy, wait a couple years and vote accordingly.

Like I said, Socialism =/= Communism but is a step to Communism. I have to discuss both. ;/ If you don't like it you really don't have to debate. Though, I know you can't resist.

Alright, it's not about the services that are made and whether they're morally right or not. It's about what powers it gives our government. It gives our government power over that certain service, when there are already services in place for that. Have you ever heard of the word charity? It actually happens quite often. I can guarantee you if 99% of society knew that this was just part of expanding the government's powers, then they wouldn't like it one bit. How about instead of having a politician vote a bureau into power, force everyone to pay a little higher tax to run it, you start a charity drive which can do the same thing, however, make much more money in the charity, and none of that money goes into the salary of a politician's? You don't think the politicians don't pocket a bit of that bureau money? Lol. As for being specific, there are 1,000s upon 1,000s of bureaus in America. But for this point I am addressing bureaus that sound all morally right and only gets a bureaucrat or a politician a raise in their salary and does almost nothing to solve the problem.

PETA isn't government-run and still does its job. However, there are bureaus in our Government that have the same job as PETA and don't execute it as well as PETA does. :P, Why, then, do we have that bureau?


Marxist communism has step ups
it goes (simplistically)
society -> capitalistic growth -> socialism -> communism -> people removing communism as they have no need for it -> utopia.
no, it wouldnt work, and more importantly, NO, socialism does not lead to communism. most communistic countries have come through revolutions and thus never actually went through the process.
i could just as easily say
Capitalism -> Communism via revolution. to stop revolution, you need to beat the people hard enough to break them (see burma), ergo..
Capitalism -> Corporationism -> Corporationism pays to get the "right" dictator in power that supports their money -> dictatorship -> communism.
WOW!!! CAPITALISM = DICTATORSHIPS AND COMMUNISM!! THEY ARE INTRISICALLY LINKED!!!

Next point

Obama has:
Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse
http://recovery.gov
most politicians are well paid BUT corruption is present in all systems of power.
im not saying that it doesnt happen, im saying that if it does, the media can claim documents under the freedom of information act and woopdeedoo, they are screwed.

next point

PETA wouldnt be government owned as it is often considered a terrorist organisation (I KID YOU NOT, they have bombed and killed) also the government wouldnt really be promoting vegetarian/vegan so strongly, maybe just healthy eating and promoting less meat + more veg.

besides, PETA complained about mafia wars use of animals claiming it supports animal cruelty... the game technically also supports running a mafia, killing people and making trillions of dollars without law capable of stopping you. dont bring up peta... PETA = I WILL RAGE.


edit* sorry for double post, forum was unhappy with my 4 page length (in word) reply. turned out one of my links is also unhappy with forum~~ i believe i can get away with it as it stole away 30 minutes of typing up my more enthusiastic original reply.

That's fine. I'm not about to beat you with a stick for double posting. >.> -takes out fish- This'll do just fine.

10.6%? unemployment? A NEW HIGHSCORE?
yes, 2008 was democratic controlled congress. when you speak of reform giving the government power, i think... PATRIOT ACT. signed in by bush in 2001, with republicans in congress, it allows the government to strip you of everything, all rights and keep you in its pocket if they call you a terrorist.
individual rights? pssh. (cant forget that obama maintained it~~)
did horror happen? no. ergo, you are wrong.

besides, private jobs sector has been experiencing constant growth for 9 months.

Lol, PATRIOT act. I would be a lot more upset with that act if anyone was falsely accused for being a terrorist, but they were surprisingly very careful with it. I am still upset with it as I am with any law that infringes on rights of Americans. So, I am upset that it came to be, and that no one has repealed it. However, that wasn't a reform that was made to try to help the economy. I'm sorry, was late when I typed most of this up. I meant mostly economic and social reform.

As for the private sector jobs having constant growth.. I really don't know how that helps us. Economy is made to run in cycles, it'll just crash and crash harder and harder once all that money from the Government goes away. I have a problem with that whole idea that a stimulus helps.

$1 = $1.

If you put $1 into the economy, and it is spent on goods and services, the economy has only put out $1. Therefore, all a stimulus has shown to do is to inflate the economy in order to create a false hope that the economy looks better, and people go out and get jobs, then once the air from the economy pops, they realize how bad the economy still is.


alright then, lets drop the PATRIOT ACT as i thought you meant government taking power. rather then government taking power in economy.

9 MONTHS OF POSITIVE GROWTH IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. MORE IN 2010 THEN BUSH MANAGED IN 8 YEARS. lol it was 9.6%~~
stop putting your fingers in your ears and listen to reality. Obama is working hard to fix the economy, he has only had 2 years, but progress has been made, significant progress... and yet, the right wing continue to be absolute rat bast...bastions... about it. (see obama's 200million india trip which is a lie but most of fox is yelling it from the roof tops)

stimulus helps as it encourages the flow of money.

if everyone were to shove their money into the banks and let it stagnate, meh, economy dies. but if you put money into the people's hands and encourage spending which encourages sales which encourages production which encourages jobs then of course it helps the economy. i have no idea why that recent flooding the market with 600 bln extra currency would help, but it would certainly help me if i can make a tidy profit from USA's struggle. $1 of money=$1 of potential growth (some people merely gamble it away/store it up)


Start with 5 moments and we will go from there

I will edit this part later with argument, source, and data. At the moment I am busy and don't have the time to show you everything. :)
Start with 1 moment?

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~Agnostic atheist pastafarian~

Discussion+debates and World Events.


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