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 Post subject: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:58 pm 
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As the title says, Why can't humanity just get along? With warfare and religious violence to hate groups and Internet flaming, why is the human world so violent and fearful of itself?

In my opinion, It is our self-consciousness, as well as human instinct. Both of them are a marvel of nature, but somewhere along the line, people started became conscious of how other people are different and that's where human instinct kicks in. Our inherent fear of the unknown led us to think "He's different, who knows what he thinks and does; he might be dangerous." And in order to suppress the other, they started fighting with one another in order to "save" their own kind from any harm. And with the advent of commerce, another nature kicks in: Greed. Greed causes envy, envy causes conflict. In other words, money (or lack of it) has people doing things that they wouldn't normally do, like invade a country for their resources or mug someone for 10 bucks. An excess of wealth also brings an inflated ego; a sense that you are above all others. One thinks of other people who have less money than him as "inferior" to himself and seeks to dominate them to show them who is better. In short, Human nature fused with the systems we made are both a blessing and a curse, with us twisting the gifts we are given
to fight and kill one another.

That's what I think, and I look forward to hearing your opinions on this.

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Last edited by MmCm6 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:54 pm 
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it's the society :P people on the media and whatnot tell people what to do indirectly the world follows not knowing they are being led into a world of enemies and not freinds. :lol:

sry if it didn't make sense

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:15 pm 
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I think I know what you mean. Society and the media, by accident or by design, are sowing the seeds of hate by tending to focus on the twisted side of life and the people who are living in it. In this way, people who regularly watch the news or similarly following some kind of report or insight would think that the world is corrupt and evil, and they start distrusting people, then hating them, then pressuring a higher body to act on it, if they don't do it personally, on the grounds of "morality".

If this is what you mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:45 am 
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its not just society, its not just media

neither were around in their form 90 years ago and yet WWI occured.

neither were around in their form 2600 years ago and yet the greeks were marching their hoplites around butchering things up

neither were around in their form 10 000 years ago and yet the tribal people would go at each other, looting, pillaging, raping, killing, fighting.


i think it is to do with human nature. it is animalistic at heart, sure, modern society may "culture" people into signing the social contract needed for prosperity and peace and yet, sports like boxing and hunting remain, games like COD and GTA remain popular as ever and crowds would cheer UFC like the crowds would cheer gladiatorial matches. cheer for blood.

there is clearly a darker side of humanity that requires to be satisfied, whether this want, this need, manifests itself into wars can be disputed but it is what allows one man to insert a bayonnet into another and rotate the blade around.
if all humans need is an excuse to unleash pain, then perhaps trivialties such as women, resources, land, power are merely scapegoats. be it a brawl over a woman. a military annex for resources and land or a forced junta for power, it could all come down to an innate desire to simply kill and not be killed. to be feared and not be feared. to be respected for one's might. to feed the tiny spark of sadism within us all.

it could all come down to survival, as you mentioned, people would conform and band into groups. these groups are cohesive in their uniqueness and as such would generally have to shun other groups or be assimilated and perhaps destroyed by a more prominent group. this would result in the "them" and "us" mentality which would inevitably lead to tension, leading to conflict. Tolerance is an extremely modern thing if you look at the human timescale, only during short, rare periods of time do visionary leaders truly push for tolerance and accepting rather then dominance and war, and even then, they do so with violent means (see alexander the great).

its complex, its multifaceted. the above is merely my musings and opinion.

Ducky out.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Sorry for not responding soon enough.

Anyway, I think you are right in some aspects, but I think it also has something to do with our will to dominate and our inherent ego; thinking, knowing, that we are the superior species. Yes, some people out there would just want to twist a knife into somebody's gut for one reason or another. Despite the reason why, it all boils down to that there is a touch of sadism in in his psyche, but also the man wants to stab someone because he thinks that him being able to overpower and stab another man makes him think that he is superior, dominant, and once the victim is on the ground, the perpetrator would actually see that he is literally above the victim, and the sense of domination and superiority is fulfilled.

Same with whole tribes of people long ago, They went around ransacking one others' villages because it fulfilled a sense of superiority and power, and the spoils, in their minds, are simply proof of their dominance. "One tribe must rule over all others" they thought, "and our tribe is that tribe". Every tribe thought that, hence pillaging, looting, conflict.

It could also apply to people watching gladiator matches in the roman eras to watching UFC or playing GTA today. A sense of superiority envelopes those who watch or play, thinking that the competitors are there just to entertain them, to kill or beat another man senseless to amuse them, the self-proclaimed higher person. Either that, or the person watching is trying to represent himself as the competitor, trying to get that adrenaline rush one gets from fighting, without getting his hands dirty. Proof of the latter statement? The fact that the emperor or a ruling party (often influenced by the crowd) can decide a gladiator's fate like it was a broken toy, or that the stands were raised high above the actual arena in the Colosseum, a safety feature, yes, but it could also mean that they were subconsciously or purposely trying to elevate themselves away from the competitors, a sign that they think they are truly and literally above them. (more opinion that fact on this statement)

If this looks like a ramble, sorry, I'll edit it with more thoughts as they come.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:07 am 
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btw, they were above them

Emperor -> senators -> nobles -> normal people -> slaves -> gladiators.

oh wait, gladiators are slaves.

elevation was to avoid angry gladiator running away from the hungry tiger and going after the people who put him in there in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:29 pm 
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Quote:
a safety feature, yes

I had that in mind. I retract that statement.

Anyways, imagine you were in the stands in ancient Rome; when the Emperor is about to decide the fate of the losing competitor, and looks to the crowds for support. You suddenly have a life on your hands, and you can do what you please because the person is of no particular importance to you; after all, he is a lowly slave. Wouldn't you feel a sense of superiority, knowing that you can have someone killed by just saying the words "die"? Bear in mind that they didn't have the same amount of restraint in bloodlust as we do have today
(although we still do have some form of bloodlust), other wise they wouldn't host the matches, right? (My opinion)

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Humans are not made to fight by design. All of life is, it is sewn within us, survival of the fittest, dog eat dog. And instincts are more felt then your mind. You may think about not killing someone, but when you need to its done.

Think about it. Wolves fight each other for what? Food, and dominance. All male wolves want to become the alpha male and get authority, and a sense of pride. They rule whats before him, and he has power, he can fight, so he does. And thats how we are. We need somehting, we get it by any means necessary, and we use it by what we are given, our minds and hands. We create stuff with our minds, and use them with our hands, and thats been the foreground of weaponry.

Greed, survival, enjoyment, lies, deceit, defense, all are reasons for wars and fights. Its been nonstop, whether it be a war on an epic scale, down to small raids or highway robberies. Another reason for wars, is someone pushes you (on a large scale) and you push back a little harder. They push back harder yet, and it escalates. They bring a few friends, and it escalates further, continuing til someones down. Then you take the spoils of war.

Thats been the basic concept of war for the better part of 10,000 years. Nomadic tribes fought for survival. Small civilizations fought to become sprawling empires, modern nations fight for political endevours, and lie to the public about it.

But while many things add to the commotion of war and conflict, it all boils down to our instincts. Whether we were programmed to live, or our ancestors evolved into this way of thinking when they saw food, and someone else was there so they stabbed them, it is all a sub concious way of thinking, instict. Its within us all, theres no avoiding it, no ones more violent then anyone else, they may expose their instincts a little more then others, but in the end, all humans are born with the same instincts and way of thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:54 am 
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targoon wrote:
All of life is, it is sewn within us, survival of the fittest, dog eat dog.


off topic but i have to point it out because i read people spread this ignorant belief constantly.

survival of the fittest =/= what you think it is.

Usain Bolt vs Barack Obama
who is fitter?

Obama, because he has.. i think its 2 daughters. in biological terms, fitness simply means your capability to breed. it doesnt matter how strong or fast or smart you are. if you cannot breed, you are not fit in biological terms. dumbasses in the past have thought to ignore the breeding bit and go straight to the dog eat dog bit which results in social darwinism aka. HITLER.
sure breeding depends on survival, but the main bit is about having offspring.

survival of the fittest?
more like
survival of those that can breed.
survival is not necessarily yourself, everyone dies, nothing is immortal. the only way one can continue themselves is offloading their genetic material into the next generation. if you can go out there and churn out many babies, kudos to you.

so yeah... now you know.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can't we be friends?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:58 am 
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I'm better than everyone else, that's why I can't be friends with anyone.

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