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rederoin
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:31 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:38 am Posts: 4744 Location: In your closet , the netherlands Gender: male
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TheMasterOfGames wrote: bork9128 wrote: it not murder it is justice
if someone kill someone for personal gain, hatred, and god for bid fun
i don't believe they have a right to have what they took
I honestly i believe that if someone can be undoubtedly proven guilty of premeditated murder (or an accomplice to it) they should get the death sentence
not only would it remove many prisoners serving life sentences from the crowded prisons it would discourage criminals in the first place
and on a related note i think quality of life for all standard us prisoners is too good I agree, clearly if someone is punished this much, they deserve it. Also, to add on, there are some REALLY crazy/horrible/cruel/messed up people out there. If they are just sentenced to life in jail they could eventually break out and wreak havoc! We can't have these kind of people simply locked up, they must end on the spot. Refer to my last post. The innocent also end up in jail for murder/rape/being more awesome than me
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mrducky
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:21 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm Posts: 781 Gender: male
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TheMasterOfGames wrote: I agree, clearly if someone is punished this much, they deserve it.
Also, to add on, there are some REALLY crazy/horrible/cruel/messed up people out there. If they are just sentenced to life in jail they could eventually break out and wreak havoc! We can't have these kind of people simply locked up, they must end on the spot. because breaking out of jail is quite simple... all you need is a spoon and you start digging. then you are out and free to much around. if they are notoriously deranged and they break out. within a day, 50km radius area is locked down by police with almost shoot on site directives. if they are mentally unstable then a mental hospital doped on drugs is the answer. no one has gone and addressed my 3 points.
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TheMasterOfGames
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:41 am |
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:14 pm Posts: 1622 Location: California, USA
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rederoin wrote: The innocent also end up in jail for murder/*CENSORED*/being more awesome than me Yes but usually they deserve it. I'm not saying innocent people should be sentenced to death, but people who do deserve it, should. mrducky wrote: because breaking out of jail is quite simple... all you need is a spoon and you start digging. then you are out and free to much around.
if they are notoriously deranged and they break out. within a day, 50km radius area is locked down by police with almost shoot on site directives.
if they are mentally unstable then a mental hospital doped on drugs is the answer.
no one has gone and addressed my 3 points. 1. You have a point there. They do cost more. So that's actually a good reason. But we should use money for a good cause. It'd be well worth it I.M.O. 2. It's just to risky to let the "deranged, sadistic bastard" live that long. Plus you couldn't put someone like that to just do work. For one he probably doesn't have enough sense to even do something productive. And other is like I said before, letting him do some kind of work could get him to take adavntage of what ever he's doing. He could learn how to use the license plates as weapons (yes, they are sharp, I got cut by one). 3. It's not barbaric at all, compared to the other things we have done. It's not like we're beheading them or putting them in a grinder or incinerator. The process in done calmly, just injection of some leathal drug that gets the job done cleanly.
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MmCm6
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:38 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:02 pm Posts: 1373 Location: Not at liberty to tell. Gender: male
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Pro-side: Death sentences should be allowed..... -Because criminals of that caliber are sometimes "hard-wired" to be that way; they can't control their urges and once they are free they'll eventually be starting to do criminal acts once more, and find ways to do them if they are otherwise under surveillance if their urge is strong enough. -Lifers only crowd up the prisons, and we have to build or annex more to support the growing population. And also, lifers tend to find ways of commiting crime from the prison itself, even with all the protocols, if they're smart enough. Remember, nothing's truly foolproof. -The death sentence is a policy that could be effective without actual appilcation. If you have to stare death in the face after you get convicted, you wouldn't have the motivation to do it anymore now, do you? Policy in place= Less crime, Less crime= Decreased need for prisons and the death sentence. / More peace. -I know someone's going to make this argument sooner or later; let me counter it now. Quote: Everyone has the right to life... That's from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That is a good argument, until one notices the bit near the end, the one that says the Declaration applies to everyone, with the exception of upholding another's rights and freedoms. The criminals took away another's life and/or property, so they are now an exception, and now the government, if they signed the Declaration, is pressured to deal with them. Refer to the second argument for problems with life terms. And yes, they undergo fair, extensive trials and are able to appeal, and are found guilty by an -impartial- party. Also, while not legally binding, the Declaration sets standards a country should (not necessarily must) follow. To mrducky:1) Court appeals in terms of representation and other expenses, should be out of the defendant's or a related third-party's pocket, so costs wouldn't be generally that high. And that's part of democracy; the ability to appeal your case. 2) As I said, lifers crowd up prisons, so we have to build more annex more, and we lose land and resources for other useful means, as well as feed and house them; all for criminals who could set up a crime ring in the (dis)comfort of their own cell if they're smart enough, thus not solving the problem. Now I know what you're gonna say, why pay for the supplies needed to induce death when it could be used for more useful purposes? IMO, you lose more when you have to build and annex, land, money, manpower, etc., as well as to set up programs that wouldn't pay for itself before a long period of time; while you only have to buy a few syringes, some toxin, and a bed with restraints for the other. 3) No death is painless; every cause of death must have something that disrupts or destroys how the body normally functions, and so when one part of the body is disrupted or destroyed, the others would follow suit, and you either bleed or suffer organ failure and have a heart attack or choke. The injection is one of the less painful ones. Oh yeah, mrducky wrote: if they are notoriously deranged and they break out. within a day, 50km radius area is locked down by police with almost shoot on site directives. There's your death sentence. (Note: I neither support nor detest the policy, I'm just here to debate.)
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mrducky
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:45 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm Posts: 781 Gender: male
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TheMasterOfGames wrote: mrducky wrote: because breaking out of jail is quite simple... all you need is a spoon and you start digging. then you are out and free to much around.
if they are notoriously deranged and they break out. within a day, 50km radius area is locked down by police with almost shoot on site directives.
if they are mentally unstable then a mental hospital doped on drugs is the answer.
no one has gone and addressed my 3 points. 1. You have a point there. They do cost more. So that's actually a good reason. But we should use money for a good cause. It'd be well worth it I.M.O. good point. good point. Ducky - 1 You - 02. It's just to risky to let the "deranged, sadistic bastard" live that long. Plus you couldn't put someone like that to just do work. For one he probably doesn't have enough sense to even do something productive. And other is like I said before, letting him do some kind of work could get him to take adavntage of what ever he's doing. He could learn how to use the license plates as weapons (yes, they are sharp, I got cut by one). if he doesnt have enough sense to do anything productive then a mental ward is the destination. it isnt exactly his/her fault and obviously the murder isnt premeditated, rather tis the voice in their head. if a guy with a license plate can escape from jail. i will give you this point here.3. It's not barbaric at all, compared to the other things we have done. It's not like we're beheading them or putting them in a grinder or incinerator. The process in done calmly, just injection of some leathal drug that gets the job done cleanly. and water boarding isnt causing any harm, its just the sensation of drowning. have you ever had your heart stopped? had your muscles slowly scream in agony from lack of oxygen? just because the person is unconscious doesnt mean no pain is felt, in fact its quite dubious as to whether it is painless.
btw, thanks for responding.Quote: To mrducky:
1) Court appeals in terms of representation and other expenses, should be out of the defendant's or a related third-party's pocket, so costs wouldn't be generally that high. And that's part of democracy; the ability to appeal your case.
yeah... because all of those murderers are rich and capable of affording proper litigation. indeed, everyone can afford litigation in this world of ours. sure... state sponsored lawyers are often relied upon and the figure even if lessened slightly, is still more expensive then life in prison.
2) As I said, lifers crowd up prisons, so we have to build more annex more, and we lose land and resources for other useful means, as well as feed and house them; all for criminals who could set up a crime ring in the (dis)comfort of their own cell if they're smart enough, thus not solving the problem.
yeah and killing them could result in zombie crime rings, you are speculating here.
Now I know what you're gonna say, why pay for the supplies needed to induce death when it could be used for more useful purposes? IMO, you lose more when you have to build and annex, land, money, manpower, etc., as well as to set up programs that wouldn't pay for itself before a long period of time; while you only have to buy a few syringes, some toxin, and a bed with restraints for the other.
...and a couple thousand appeal processes, trained medical professionals who instead of saving life are taking it, facilities specifically made for the taking of life (lets annex land LOL), death row cells, drugs which have considerable cost, etc.
3) No death is painless; every cause of death must have something that disrupts or destroys how the body normally functions, and so when one part of the body is disrupted or destroyed, the others would follow suit, and you either bleed or suffer organ failure and have a heart attack or choke. The injection is one of the less painful ones.
there is no study saying that injection is less painful then beheading. lets bring back public beheading. barbaric is still barbaric.
There's your death sentence. ~~stun guns.
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rederoin
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:12 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:38 am Posts: 4744 Location: In your closet , the netherlands Gender: male
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TheMasterOfGames wrote: rederoin wrote: The innocent also end up in jail for murder/*CENSORED*/being more awesome than me Yes but usually they deserve it. I'm not saying innocent people should be sentenced to death, but people who do deserve it, should. mrducky wrote: because breaking out of jail is quite simple... all you need is a spoon and you start digging. then you are out and free to much around.
if they are notoriously deranged and they break out. within a day, 50km radius area is locked down by police with almost shoot on site directives.
if they are mentally unstable then a mental hospital doped on drugs is the answer.
no one has gone and addressed my 3 points. 1. You have a point there. They do cost more. So that's actually a good reason. But we should use money for a good cause. It'd be well worth it I.M.O. 2. It's just to risky to let the "deranged, sadistic bastard" live that long. Plus you couldn't put someone like that to just do work. For one he probably doesn't have enough sense to even do something productive. And other is like I said before, letting him do some kind of work could get him to take adavntage of what ever he's doing. He could learn how to use the license plates as weapons (yes, they are sharp, I got cut by one). 3. It's not barbaric at all, compared to the other things we have done. It's not like we're beheading them or putting them in a grinder or incinerator. The process in done calmly, just injection of some leathal drug that gets the job done cleanly. gratz on misunderstanding me. How do the innocent deserve dead?? Why can't anybody answer that?
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TheMasterOfGames
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:51 am |
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:14 pm Posts: 1622 Location: California, USA
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I never said innocent deserve death, only people who DO deserve it.
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MmCm6
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:07 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:02 pm Posts: 1373 Location: Not at liberty to tell. Gender: male
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rederion wrote: How do the innocent deserve dead?? Why can't anybody answer that? If it's a democracy, there would be a lengthy trial and tons of appeals, and if the convict is found innocent on one of them, he's aquitted.
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mrducky
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:57 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm Posts: 781 Gender: male
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zzz no one debates anymore D: discussion dies so fast >.>
i miss using my green writing and making posts unnecessarily long. no one is commited enough to go against my stubborness.
my points are all there, is the conservative right's position that weak?
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rederoin
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Post subject: Re: Death Sentences. Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:26 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:38 am Posts: 4744 Location: In your closet , the netherlands Gender: male
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@TheMasterOfGames MmCm6 wrote: rederion wrote: How do the innocent deserve dead?? Why can't anybody answer that? If it's a democracy, there would be a lengthy trial and tons of appeals, and if the convict is found innocent on one of them, he's aquitted. Innocent people are convicted.. Really, before you even try debating it, know your facts. People have gone to jail, for years, while being innocent.
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