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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:42 pm 
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Ah, the usual decision by conservatives that every person on welfare is lazy

and simply refuses to work because they can make more money by sitting

on their butts.



For Example:"The reason the economy is weak is because all those people

are on welfare draining money by sitting on their butts. I work 40 hours a

week to get what I have. They sit on their butts and do nothing. I see

those people driving in SUV's using MY money"



This is making the exception the rule. Even if you can name 50 people who

are mis-using welfare, you can't just assume that means every welfare

member is are lazy lying communists. Most people don't think needing

welfare is something to be ashamed of. (It isn't, however its nothing to be

proud of either) So they won't admit that they're on it. Welfare is something

to help people make ends meet until they can get a new job.




However then there are people who can't get off of welfare. Evil too right?

Wrong. Many people on welfare are parents. They don't have family who will

help them. So they have to raise a kid, go to work, and have the kid taken

care of all at once.



Then you say:"Bullsh*t, my mom raised 3 kids by herself and was never on

welfare."



No two cases are ever the same. The factors that must be applied are the

availability of transportation, the availability of a job, the availability of

housing,(The most expensive thing yet not included in the cost of living),

the availability of childcare, preferably in-expensive and without pedophiles

or child beaters.



If even 1 of those factors don't pan out, your screwed. You won't be able

to survive, and even in such a situation you'll be scoffed at by people such

as apollo because your draining money from the economy.



God Bless America.


EDIT: Lol, anyone else think the america looks french?


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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Speaking of welfare, most people are on welfare because A) They're Lazy or B) They want more Ka-Ching!

Yes, Welfare has legitimate reasons, like being unemployed or having health problems/disabilities, but how many people have welfare and sit around the house watching the tube? How many people on welfare make incomes that exceed $40K or more?

And yes, your America looks francais Sylis :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:17 am 
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Plotter wrote:
Speaking of welfare, most people are on welfare because A) They're Lazy or B) They want more Ka-Ching!


dont make an unfair generalization like that, most are because they cannot find work, are disabled, or are not capable of holding a job due to a reason (whole family dead a bit down in the dumps, broken arm and working in heavy labor, screwed up and had children too young, cant afford to send them to kindergarten)

perhaps welfare would be better if there is more scrutiny, but you shouldnt see someone on welfare who isnt missing both legs and say they are lazy.

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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Plotter wrote:
Speaking of welfare, most people are on welfare because A) They're Lazy or B) They want more Ka-Ching!






Wow plotter that was amazing :D. You completely ignored everything I said,

and repeated exactly what I said you would say.




I know, you think your super conservative powers allow you to pull

statistics out of hammer space, (google it, ill wait...done? K.), but those

statistics aren't always gonna be correct.




Like I said, even if,(and that's a big IF), you can name 50 people who abuse

welfare, that doesn't create a demographic of welfare recipients abusing

the system. Half the time I talk to conservatives and they'll see two people

on welfare just because they automatically assume all welfare recipients are

lazy.



However, I wont blame you too much. Its natural to feel that way. We all

want to say I would never do that. However have you ever been out of a

job because your kids need to be looked after? Have you ever been out of a

job because your hurt? Have you ever been in a situation where your can't

afford housing and your stuck with either getting welfare or working at

walmart and living at the YMCA?



People go through choices like those every day. Not because they chose

those things. They didn't wake up one day and say,"Hey I'm gonna have

some kids and live below the poverty line." They're victims of circumstance

and you should feel guilty for judging and generalizing them.


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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Wow

Did you read where I mentioned the legitimate reasons of Welfare? You say I call people who are handicapped Lazy, yet I mentioned that in the ups of Welfare. I also mentioned welfare when unemployed is also a yay.

Yes I used most, and thats because there are people making 50K a year on welfare, unless they say have health issues or their kid has Autism (FYI I also have Aspergers syndrome, and getting treatment for things such as Autism is at ridiculous costs), people making 50k should get off their couch and stop using welfare for your new computer.

It's the same for people who are intelligent and can afford to go to University, they get their degree, get a crap job and go on welfare. No! Get a job, make money, stash it in your Retirement savings fund, and get lazy at 65 if you don't have health problems.

And yes, it's sad to see people not be able to make it, but they probably made poor choices when they were younger. And I don't care if you give me the old "He came from a poor family" excuse, I can name people who are extremely poor and get scholarships or make it to uni, or even get a decent paycheck, because they were dedicated to getting out of poverty and into middle class life. And for those that stay poor, they didn't dedicate themselves to becoming richer unless they got held back from mom or dad. And lots of rich kids become poor because guess what? They made very7 bad mistakes or were just lazy.

My dad also shares the same views, and he makes something like $20k-$30k/year (I dunno his wage, it's none of my business)


Point: learn2read my whole sentence and not just one sentence

AND FYI, I'm a Libertarian, not a Conservative, although I do lean towards conservative.

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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Quote:
And yes, it's sad to see people not be able to make it, but they probably made poor choices when they were younger.



Ah so if you make one mistake your supposed to starve along with your

children? Well hell, why even have a criminal justice system?


Quote:
And I don't care if you give me the old "He came from a poor family" excuse, I can name people who are extremely poor and get scholarships or make it to uni, or even get a decent paycheck, because they were dedicated to getting out of poverty and into middle class life.



Making the exception the rule again. I can't think of the source, however

my one of my professors mentioned an example where a girl came from an

extremely poor family, after her mother left her abusive father. So she

spent 3 years living out of a YMCA, and Lydia houses. She got a scholarship

straight out of high school, and graduated from Brown,(Or some other Ivy

league. Unimportant.)




Then people started trying to make an example out of her saying,"She can

do it people, and you can too!" She replied to him, explaining that she was

extremely intelligent and was able to manage 5 Advanced Placement

courses at a time in high school. Which is why she received a scholarship.

What people don't realize,(Or simply refuse to Believe), is that not everyone

is equal in intelligent. Its easy to believe that someone can be born taller,

stronger, faster, however when we say someone may have a greater

intelligence by birth people get uncomfortable.




Quote:
And for those that stay poor, they didn't dedicate themselves to becoming richer unless they got held back from mom or dad. And lots of rich kids become poor because guess what? They made very bad mistakes or were just lazy.




I honestly wanna grill you on the brainwashing you obviously have had. I'll

keep it short. In school were brainwashed into believing the only reason for

our existence is to pull a profit. You specifically say,"They didn't dedicate

themselves to becoming richer." My god. Is this what the world has come

to? No dedicating ourselves to broaden our understanding of the universe,

or philosophy, or our common man, but to only try to pull the maximum

amount of profit in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of

work. God bless Capitalism! God Bless America! (thousand 1, thousand 2,

thousand 3 for Dramatic effect.)




There is one simple fact your neglecting. The world isn't run on perfectly

balanced transactions. No matter how much your give you aren't promised

to get what you put in back. You may get less. The world is run by luck.

Shouldn't a man who worked in a coal mine for 40 years get more out of life,

that the man who made quadruple the amount of money he made in his 40

years in 2 months? Obviously equal yes?


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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:42 pm 
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Sylis wrote:
Ah so if you make one mistake your supposed to starve along with your

children? Well hell, why even have a criminal justice system?

One gargantuan mistake, or multiple significant mistakes, but whatever the mistake, it made them poor, or stay poor, for that matter.

And with the justice system, it failed too many people anyways, especially the youth justice system.


Sylis wrote:
Making the exception the rule again. I can't think of the source, however

my one of my professors mentioned an example where a girl came from an

extremely poor family, after her mother left her abusive father. So she

spent 3 years living out of a YMCA, and Lydia houses. She got a scholarship

straight out of high school, and graduated from Brown,(Or some other Ivy

league. Unimportant.)


Yes, but then again, scholarships are hard, but getting As and Bs can land you in a very good paycheck, and being poor or lower class is no exception unless the employer has problems with the poor.


Sylis wrote:
Then people started trying to make an example out of her saying,"She can

do it people, and you can too!" She replied to him, explaining that she was

extremely intelligent and was able to manage 5 Advanced Placement

courses at a time in high school. Which is why she received a scholarship.

What people don't realize,(Or simply refuse to Believe), is that not everyone

is equal in intelligent. Its easy to believe that someone can be born taller,

stronger, faster, however when we say someone may have a greater

intelligence by birth people get uncomfortable.

It really depends, some people are really intelligent in elementary school, then go downhill in High school, and that really depends what they're getting into with their family and peers at school, or what they've been up to on the computer or somewhere, Yes, people have way different intelligence levels, but many are at the bottom (Not all, sometimes mental issues land you there) because they end up going the crappy road rather than the good road.



Sylis wrote:
I honestly wanna grill you on the brainwashing you obviously have had. I'll

keep it short. In school were brainwashed into believing the only reason for

our existence is to pull a profit.

All my teachers were Socialists or Centrist in some way. That concept is very conservative, and as I mentioned, I'm a Libertarian, not a Conservatief


Sylis wrote:
You specifically say,"They didn't dedicate themselves to becoming richer."

My god. Is this what the world has come to?

Yes it is, o wait, last I checked, the world went left and fell off a cliff.


Sylis wrote:
No dedicating ourselves to broaden our understanding of the universe,

or philosophy, or our common man, but to only try to pull the maximum

amount of profit in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of

work. God bless Capitalism! God Bless America! (thousand 1, thousand 2,

thousand 3 for Dramatic effect.)

Thats what everyone wants to do, that's why there are people who will make cash by selling illegal things like drugs (Which I think should be legalised except Meth, Coke and Heroin) or Illegal arms.

And yes, those who do the toughest work (Miners, Trades, etc) should get better wages, but engineers do make lots of money.



Sylis wrote:
There is one simple fact your neglecting. The world isn't run on perfectly

balanced transactions. No matter how much your give you aren't promised

to get what you put in back. You may get less. The world is run by luck.

Shouldn't a man who worked in a coal mine for 40 years get more out of life,

that the man who made quadruple the amount of money he made in his 40

years in 2 months? Obviously equal yes?

Of course it is, it is America isn't it? (joke)

And yes, the world is run by luck, and always has been since the existence of earth (4.5 billion years or 6000 years, whatever the heck you like).

And try professional sports athlete wages, their incomes are absolutely ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:46 pm 
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apollo will make dis short n sweet. Sure, not all people on welfare abuse it. But you know darn well that it is heavly abused. People have more kids, 'cuz the more kids, the more $$$. Even you cannot be so stubborn as to ignore that fact. Welfare is incredibally heavily abused, and that's why we need to edit it out. Change it. Have monthly check-ups to see if the people are making an ACTUAL effort to find a job. High school drop outs will not be eligible, students who constantly failed classes, etc. If you are mentally/physically disabled, that's one thing. But for everyone else...

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 Post subject: Re: Socialism is a failure
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Yes it is heavily abused. However that doesn't mean we should get rid of it all together. Welfare exists to prevent depressions. Even if they're receiving money from the government they're still contributing from the economy. They're spending money still.


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