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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:29 am 
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empirebattles.com wrote:
Topics in forums such as this SUCK... I am a christian. People can guess it by the way I live my life, and act.
I dont remember exactly where in Romans it is (i'll go look for it today), but even the Bible says "Do not argue the minor points of religion to those who would not listen, for your religion will become more worthless than the lies they chose to believe" (not a perfect quote...but you get the idea.

Arguing in forums, for something such as Christianity, is pointless, most of the times, because you DONT HAVE THE ANSWER. You continually spout what you were taught as a child through your church, which was lead by HUMANS, who also didn't have all the answers. The fact is, you dont go out and attempt to tell someone they are wrong, and this is why: Because i'm rigth... You ask someone to question their beliefs, or question yours, so that you can provide an answer to the best of your ability...
And be able to say "I dont know".


Over the years, i've seen both sides of stuff. I've gotten a minor in evolutionist studies, but i am still a christian. You may say that that is hypocritical, but you MUST realize. Science and Religion CAN NOT be separated.
We say that God created the earth in 7 Days. Science says that the earth was created over billions of years. Yet at the same token, we claim that God is outside of time and space. The story of creation was given by God. What exactly IS "7 Days" in God years, when, according to the bible, "Ten Thousand years, is but a second in Gods eyes"... So how many seconds are in 7 days?: 604800s. That means: 6,048,000,000 years... 6 BILLION Years... which is around how old geologists say the earth is.
We claim that evolution is not possible because God created everything, Yet we see evolution occuring in other animals today. I do not believe that humans evolved from something, but why couldn't the rest of life have evolved?
Evolution/Geology says that the world was created from parts of a leftover explosion from our sun... thus the Sun starting the world formation. Then, after the volcanic activity of the world subsided, the earth became a water planet. Then bacteria came from the oceans, and then when oxygen levels were high enough, they emerged to the air, and then they progressed onto the land.
The Bible says that God first created Light(the sun). Second day, created the oceans and the sky (no land yet). Third, he created land. Fourth he established the seasons (a stable orbit around the sun, making life sustainable on earth). Fifth, he created the creatures of the sea, and the birds of the air, and told them to multiply (like bacteria...). Sixth, he created animals on land, along with man/woman.

Look at the 2 stories... how closely they relate...Yet as religion, we refuse to believe that science had any part of it... it was purely god because that is what the Bible says it is. Look at it this way: we say that a miraculous healing was from God, because we had no hand in it. But WHY was the person healed? Most of the times it was due to an increase in a chemical in the body, or some other scientific reason that cannot be explained how it happened.... its science, but we claim it to be God, because we have no hand in it. Why is creation so different? Or anything else? Why must God never use science to do something?
Proclaiming that God and science are separate, will put you in a losing battle every time:P


Okay... i did my schpeal :) If anyone has any actual questions, NOT just a question just for the sake of arguing, i'll try to answer the best i can:)



I'm sorry, but you had a few points that are very much off the mark.

First, you say that, if 1 second is 10000 years for god, 7 days worth of seconds adds up to about 6 billion years. However, this is when god would have started to create the universe, or "light and dark". I think the current theory is that the universe is about 14 billion years old, so the Bible is off there....

Also, according to your math, humans would ave come into existence about 1 billion years ago, while science currently shows up that humans only first appeared between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago.

Also, the argument that God acts through natural processes is completely moot.... You just took away the point that God doesn't need science because it is god. If god is omnipotent and omniscient, tell me why it needs to act within the laws it created.

So I still don't see how religion and science are integrated.

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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:15 am 
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The idea of the math is just that... the idea. The Bible refers to a day as an actual day... and yet it referrs to a day as thousands of years in the same respect.


The point i was trying to get across is that its not a global rule, and that in order to actually learn something, you have to look at more than the specifics (which you obviously cannot even do in a simple forum post:P)

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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:03 am 
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Thanks for participatinf in the debate, I know is actually an offense to preach to those who are faithless, and I also agree with you about evolution as a fact and also agree that science and religion walk together eternaly, but I can´t agree with we havn´t all the answers. Vyasadeva
(a God manifestation as Lord Jesus) describe all we need to know of our original constitutive possition as pure individual souls, and also as humans.
The wise and saints mention that an autorrealized soul knows everything, not because they know everything, but they know everything they need to know. So infinite knowledge will never be reveled to anyone but God Himself. Beside fundamental escencial knoledge will be reveled to a sincer student at any time any age any sircunstance if he has the pure intention to learn the absolute truth from the absolute truth itself.

Develop of humble, tollerance and other divine cualities is possible only by obedience of God laws andthose laws I carry in my hearth forever, because they actually save my life and if I try to give the same medicine to all my brothers is because I know how sick they are but they have to accept they are sick first before visit the doctor but the simptoms of this illness are the same everywhere arround so I will aprecciate you help our mission to create a better happiness common world. That´s what God wants and that´s what I want. To be all brothers again and leave in peace.


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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:13 am 
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Vedas say a day of Brahma (universe) is about 13x10-18 and a night of Brahma is the 13x10-18 also and Brahma lives arround 100 of this years.

Mayas describe one Hearth beat of Galaxy (a Bramha organ) every 5125 years. and a hole breath every 26125 years.

Wich means we can not even concive the time the universe lives, and the scriptures also describe that is just a blink of God. But the most important is that us are actually oldest than Bramha because we come from Eternity and Bramha also go back to Godhead after cosmic manifestation dilution.


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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:07 pm 
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emmanuel wrote:
Develop of humble, tollerance and other divine cualities is possible only by obedience of God laws


That statement is false as well. Intolerance is a big thing about Religion. For a Religion or belief to be true, it must logically mean any other Religion/belief is untrue. Therefore the people whom believe in one religion cannot accept another. That's intolerance. Muslim people are taught by Muhammad to sometimes use force to bring people to their religion. In the Old Testament there are many places where a group of people didn't completely side with the Jews, and hence were slaughtered. Every religion teaches a form of intolerance because it is a part of a belief.

To believe the sky is purple, I must believe that it is not blue or gray.

The only way possible for everyone to have tolerance would be:

A. Everyone be of the SAME Religion.
or
B. There not be a religion of any form.

Letter B is Atheism.

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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:10 pm 
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Scorcher wrote:
emmanuel wrote:
Develop of humble, tollerance and other divine cualities is possible only by obedience of God laws


That statement is false as well. Intolerance is a big thing about Religion. For a Religion or belief to be true, it must logically mean any other Religion/belief is untrue. Therefore the people whom believe in one religion cannot accept another. That's intolerance. Muslim people are taught by Muhammad to sometimes use force to bring people to their religion. In the Old Testament there are many places where a group of people didn't completely side with the Jews, and hence were slaughtered. Every religion teaches a form of intolerance because it is a part of a belief.

To believe the sky is purple, I must believe that it is not blue or gray.

The only way possible for everyone to have tolerance would be:

A. Everyone be of the SAME Religion.
or
B. There not be a religion of any form.

Letter B is Atheism.


Well, on the subject of tolerance, Christianity is more of a "convert everyone who is not a christian" faith. Hence the phrase "make disciples of all nations"

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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:58 pm 
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Your statement of intollerance is completely ignorant.

You are putting ALL people who are Christians into 1 big group...
Tollerance is not having to believe it. Tolerance is accepting that it is there, and still being able to live your own life.
I hate noobs... but i tolerate them, because it is just a fact of life. Just the same as other's beliefs.
No... we dont have to believe everyone's faith, but we do have to tolerate them... live our life with them around us.

One thing you keep claiming, is that the old-testament laws, the story of the jews, and that all the stores of that time are models that christians must claim to live by. There is a reason that the jews and the Christians are a separate religion...

You speak of intollerance, yet you refuse to believe ANYTHING that accepts any form of religion.

That is what we call a hypocrite:)

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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:01 pm 
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empirebattles.com wrote:
Your statement of intollerance is completely ignorant.

You are putting ALL people who are Christians into 1 big group...
Tollerance is not having to believe it. Tolerance is accepting that it is there, and still being able to live your own life.
I hate noobs... but i tolerate them, because it is just a fact of life. Just the same as other's beliefs.
No... we dont have to believe everyone's faith, but we do have to tolerate them... live our life with them around us.

One thing you keep claiming, is that the old-testament laws, the story of the jews, and that all the stores of that time are models that christians must claim to live by. There is a reason that the jews and the Christians are a separate religion...

You speak of intollerance, yet you refuse to believe ANYTHING that accepts any form of religion.

That is what we call a hypocrite:)


Actually, religion, in a way, does require intolerance. Th only religion that I would have to say is truly tolerant is Unitarian Universalism. But then again, I'm not even sure if that's classified as a religion....

Anyway, here is religious intolerance (I'm assuming that you're christian):

You are a Christian, therefore the Qu'ran, and the Islamic religion, is wrong to you. You do not believe in Allah, nor are you open to the idea that any Islamic beliefs are correct. Because if you were open to the idea of Allah, then you wouldn't be a Christian.

This can be applied to any other religion as well. If I belong to Religion A, then I logically must believe that Religion B is wrong. If I was open to Religion B being correct, then I wouldn't be a true member of Religion A because I wouldn't be adamant in the fact that my god(s) exist(s).

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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:19 pm 
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Definition for Intolerant:
merriam-webster dictionary wrote:
1 : unable or unwilling to endure
2 a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights


You are saying that intolerant means to not believe in something, which is incorrect. Intolerant is not being able to endure through someone elses beliefs.
Now... if we didn't permit them to practice their beliefs while we were around, or we didn't allow them to do what they wish in religious desire, that would be intolerant.
Christianity tells us to be tolerant of those who do not believe the same. We may not have to believe the same, but we do not have to force-convert them.


Too many christians "preach" to people religion, and rules... which the bible states in multiple places to not do... but we are to rather LIVE the example of the rules, and answer the questions about your life in truth.

Am i saying that all christian religion is tolerant? NO WAY. I've been in some pretty intolerant church's, where they wouldn't let you in if you you were in blue jeans. So no... not all christian faiths are tolerant, but it doesn't mean that they are correct.

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 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:43 pm 
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empirebattles.com wrote:
Definition for Intolerant:
merriam-webster dictionary wrote:
1 : unable or unwilling to endure
2 a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights


Too many christians "preach" to people religion, and rules... which the bible states in multiple places to not do... but we are to rather LIVE the example of the rules, and answer the questions about your life in truth.

Am i saying that all christian religion is tolerant? NO WAY. I've been in some pretty intolerant church's, where they wouldn't let you in if you you were in blue jeans. So no... not all christian faiths are tolerant, but it doesn't mean that they are correct.


That was really my main point when I said intolerance. So many Christians are almost offended that people are of another religion, or of none at all (at least in America). There a was poll in America where people were asked if they had positive, negative, or neutral views about different religious groups.
Atheists came in second to last with 13% of the people having a positive view of them. The only people viewed lower than atheists? Scientologists.

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