It is currently Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:32 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:22 am 
Private
Private
 Profile

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:19 pm
Posts: 7
emmanuel, the vids you posted are worthless. You are just trying to convert people to your religion with fear. Just like millions of preachers before you back down the ages. And just like them, you provide no evidence; just emotional manipulation.

But I have not read the book your talking about, who knows maybe it is proof. I am after all, open minded about the subject.

Why don't we compromise. I'll read your book if you read 'The God Dellusion' by Richard Dawkins. What do you say?

Heres some vids
http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawkinsdotnet?blend=1&ob=4&rclk=cti
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQeUkCVqlj0


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:34 am 
Private 1st class
Private 1st class
 Profile

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:14 pm
Posts: 12
I feel sorry If you missunderstood my point, I am not trying to convert anyone, why should I? people has their own will and of course their own reactions, Please tell me what religion do I practice? next as I said Bhagavad-Gita is quite proof of God existance, also Jesus Christ is that´s a fact, about Richard Dawkins, mmm well, the science he practice shouldn´t have mistakes, because it is the truth right?, no misconseptions, no speculation (because that´s not science eather) and no contradictions. I found this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtl ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaKryi36 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcHp_LWG ... re=related

We shouldn´t be so antious on beliefs that actually creates most problems and deseases in our occidental way of life, we should reconsider the idea of a universal comunism based on love, that´s what the ancient Vedas and all the whise cultures talk about and if you actually looking for answers you should deeply study them, eather way I will read that book while you read the Bhagavad-Gita As it Is by His Divine Grace Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

This is my personal e-mail centrodharma@live.com.mx to be in touch in about 4 weeks and continue our debate.

By the way, I found something incredible called "expelled" no intelligence allowed, look for it. see you later on.


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:05 pm 
Captain
Captain
 Profile

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:51 am
Posts: 661
Gender: male
I'm not a great fan of Dawkin's apologism. He's a great biologist, and should stick to his field, but in a religious debate, he falls flat. His reading material is suitable for the armchair atheist, who doesn't want to think about it too much. Fair enough, but it's hardly intellectually sound.

Could you lay out an argument for the existance of the Christian Deity without using a video, please? I prefer text based.

Thanks,
St.Even

_________________
The Lemon-Coloured* forum Demi-God!

The Battle Dawn Staff:
Working with you, to make and maintain
the very best browser based game!

*Lemon-Flavoured, according to Andrew...


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:33 pm 
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:08 pm
Posts: 142
Gender: male
the God-argument would be doing a lot better if the only person arguing for it wasn't so repetitive...

If you want to have something less iffy than some ancient hindu text

question to emmanuel: Are you christian or what? I am utterly confused by what you're saying because if you're christian then why are you using indian scriptures?

One way I look at the proof of God actions in the world: Just look throughout Roman history to now. The European continent and America have been two of the driving forces in the world ever since. Albeit, it was the chinese who made gunpowder and helped advance, but it has always been the Christian countries that have pushed ahead of everyone else.

Now I know someone will try to use the argument "yes, but throughout all that time the church used its position to manipulate and control the uneducated masses." The truth is, that argument is completely null and void because that's not my faith, that's some idiot's.

Yes, I did just go on that tangent

_________________
Image

Cbop, SHRK


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:50 pm 
Private 1st class
Private 1st class
 Profile

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:14 pm
Posts: 12
Sure, firs of all, I want to let you know Bible for our study bases are not an autoritative scripture, except for the life and words of Lord Jesus.
The reason is because it was modify in a certain time by Rome.
Rome persuit True Cristians for so long and actually torture them, Cristian comunity grow and extend so fast then Rome offer cristians to become Cristian´s churche by one condition, to modify some aspects of Bible that Rome does not agree. You can imagine how those torture methods were so a consilium was written and then Catholisism born same political lies as now, they offer peace to the world by this consilium, but actally Church was after control.

Then Evil finally control religion and meny perturbations in our world appear, I am sure you know what I am talking about.
Now when people listen about religion they actually are not understanding what religion really means, most of them never understand God wich is the purpose of religion and learn how to love God also.

Quantum Phisics have pretty much shown what I learn from the sastras with many different therms, I need to be honest saying that I rather like mothern science before religion that´s because I am a Doctor haha, but after 5 years of very deep understanding of life, I finally agree 100% with Vedas


Quantic Phisics explain what Vedas call Brahman (pure potential field). basicly it is the first infinite aspect of absolute truth, but there are 2 more modern science can´t explain yet but Vedas do that very well, I know more than 90 texts in sanscrit all of them explaining the 3 different aspects of absolute truth in 3 different levels of comprehension.

They describe 3 fields acting with space and time in this creation, first the source of all wich is spirit, then by acting of the subtil elements (intelligent and false ego) mind was created as a cover of the spiritual manifestation, it starts producing karma (reactions and finally Big Bang was possible when the mind of God acting with his own spirit manifest his will and universe born (Lord Bramha the first leaving creature) So first than modern science accept universe was a living entity Vedas know thousand years before. By the time, elements where created yes, yes, yes! Fire, Air, Water, Earth and Ether. (most elements we know are earth ok?)then appear senses and finally the intelligense that design the first body by long prosses(to our coseption of time)send an spiritual spark and life born (I am not telling presisely on earth)
Only by spiritual power a body ca live, when the body is no longer usefull the soul transmigrate to a new body and that´s reencarnation.
Well the point of this reencarnation is gradually get closer to it´s original consiousness by regulating mind, regulating body wich are crystals above the soul, If they are clean One can see. God came so many times to restablish the principles of religion and we are those who regect them by our own free will, but those are laws we can keep in our lifes to make our body mind be clean and always have a correct perspective of life they are not prohibitions.
I learn from school that if you want to learn medicine you must go and learn from a doctor, if it is arquitecture, then go with an arquitect, but if you want to be happy and also love in your life, you should go with a master in that area so the only example I can mention as a fact of this are Pure devotees of God.
Even in this world they shown how to do so and that´s because they where actally acting by their own consiousness without any other influence, external influence, mind and body. You can find many examples of pure devotees even in the middle of caos because they are connected with the other two aspects of absolute truth Paramatma and Bhagavan
Lord Jesus Crist I only one of the examples and His knoledge will never die but always exist because it is transendental.
Srimad Bhagavatam give us many other examples of purity and 500 years ago Lord restablish the teachings of truth by Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabu by a disipular sussecion that exist leaded now by Srila Prabhupada and Gurudeva B.A. Paramadvaiti.

God is one there is no meaning of Him to be complete if you are not part of Him wich means you are connected eternally with God but now that your true consiousness is covered you can not see.

We can call god on infinite names because he is unlimitates and noone can describe His cualities, for example, Alla means the mercyest, Govinda means Who gives Happiness Mukunda means wo gives liberation, Krishna means supreme atractive Bhagavan the one who possess all opulence, Yogesvara, Budda, Yave, Jeova, Pakal Votan, Jesus Crist, Gopal, Mahesvara, and the list goes on "One single God".

Now Bhagavad Gita, God describe Himself as the origin of everithing including of cours life.


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:04 am 
Lieutenant Major
Lieutenant Major
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:49 pm
Posts: 1983
Location: ??? If you find me, you can win a prize
Topics in forums such as this SUCK... I am a christian. People can guess it by the way I live my life, and act.
I dont remember exactly where in Romans it is (i'll go look for it today), but even the Bible says "Do not argue the minor points of religion to those who would not listen, for your religion will become more worthless than the lies they chose to believe" (not a perfect quote...but you get the idea.

Arguing in forums, for something such as Christianity, is pointless, most of the times, because you DONT HAVE THE ANSWER. You continually spout what you were taught as a child through your church, which was lead by HUMANS, who also didn't have all the answers. The fact is, you dont go out and attempt to tell someone they are wrong, and this is why: Because i'm rigth... You ask someone to question their beliefs, or question yours, so that you can provide an answer to the best of your ability...
And be able to say "I dont know".


Over the years, i've seen both sides of stuff. I've gotten a minor in evolutionist studies, but i am still a christian. You may say that that is hypocritical, but you MUST realize. Science and Religion CAN NOT be separated.
We say that God created the earth in 7 Days. Science says that the earth was created over billions of years. Yet at the same token, we claim that God is outside of time and space. The story of creation was given by God. What exactly IS "7 Days" in God years, when, according to the bible, "Ten Thousand years, is but a second in Gods eyes"... So how many seconds are in 7 days?: 604800s. That means: 6,048,000,000 years... 6 BILLION Years... which is around how old geologists say the earth is.
We claim that evolution is not possible because God created everything, Yet we see evolution occuring in other animals today. I do not believe that humans evolved from something, but why couldn't the rest of life have evolved?
Evolution/Geology says that the world was created from parts of a leftover explosion from our sun... thus the Sun starting the world formation. Then, after the volcanic activity of the world subsided, the earth became a water planet. Then bacteria came from the oceans, and then when oxygen levels were high enough, they emerged to the air, and then they progressed onto the land.
The Bible says that God first created Light(the sun). Second day, created the oceans and the sky (no land yet). Third, he created land. Fourth he established the seasons (a stable orbit around the sun, making life sustainable on earth). Fifth, he created the creatures of the sea, and the birds of the air, and told them to multiply (like bacteria...). Sixth, he created animals on land, along with man/woman.

Look at the 2 stories... how closely they relate...Yet as religion, we refuse to believe that science had any part of it... it was purely god because that is what the Bible says it is. Look at it this way: we say that a miraculous healing was from God, because we had no hand in it. But WHY was the person healed? Most of the times it was due to an increase in a chemical in the body, or some other scientific reason that cannot be explained how it happened.... its science, but we claim it to be God, because we have no hand in it. Why is creation so different? Or anything else? Why must God never use science to do something?
Proclaiming that God and science are separate, will put you in a losing battle every time:P


Okay... i did my schpeal :) If anyone has any actual questions, NOT just a question just for the sake of arguing, i'll try to answer the best i can:)

_________________
BD Community Member 7-8++?? years(retired)

My posts are NOT from spam... they are from suggestions :)

Working on new game (contact for info)


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:29 am 
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:32 am
Posts: 15987
Gender: male
very well said, i think u helped more then the doctor did =P
i'm also kinda in the middle between science and religion so most of what you said made sence (to me atleast).
people make up stuff when they don't know why it happends, i'll try to make a less fail comparesing then doctor between this and bd =P

u guys remember the day the servers were down for several hours when they added snow unit pics and removed 5?
the broadcasts were full of "E5 is restarting!"
i atleast think it's a good example that people make up their storys when they don't fully know, they trie to connect the dotts as best as they can.
they saw e5 away from the list, it were lagging, so some one guessed that it would restart, and that belife spread out.

_________________
Image
Code:
http://battledawn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=4690
Thank you Michael
http://www.battledawn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=15076
Thank you developers
(^-check out the topics)


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:24 am 
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:51 pm
Posts: 240
Gender: male
I can't say whether God exists or not, but I can say why I don't believe in the Bible. I guess the main problem with the Bible is it is not only contradictory, but it is written by men.

God says MANY times in the Bible that murder, killing, and genocide are wrong. He feels so strongly about it that he makes it one of the most important of the Ten Commandments. I can pull up 100s of scriptures throughout the Bible that show how strongly God is against murder, killing, and genocide. However, there are scriptures in the Bible where God orders a genocide..

The Caananites for example. They were the people living in Jerusalem when Moses escaped from Egypt with his people. They didn't believe in God and had strange traditions that were very.. ungodly. They were corrupted and greedy as well. The Jews however fear them greatly. There are many more of them than there are Jews, and they have an actual military. The Jews would stand no chance without the help of God. The scouts they sent proved this. God gets furious that they fear the Caananites so much, he orders the Jews to kill them all, and take the women in as their sex slaves and the children were to be slaughtered as well. This same God created the Caananites and just ordered them to be slaughtered. He broke his own commandments and taught the Jews that the only means of getting into their land was by slaughter and genocide. I don't believe in that. I can't bring myself into believing that.

Maybe, just maybe it would be ok if this was the only instance to where God orders his people to break a commandment despite their fear of breaking it... but it's not. Sadly this reoccurs many times in the Bible. I can however give you the verses in which all this happens if you ask.

The Bible is a false, fantasy story in my opinion. It was brought on by the need for moral values at a time when people didn't know what to believe. They had to have something in order to force moral values on them or the society may have never been civilized. That's fine. I am willing to accept that. However, I don't believe our society today even needs religion at this point. All it does is cause more violence than help. People are shocked when they hear that Communism resulted in the death of 40 million + people. How shocked would they be to hear that Religion resulted in the death of billions? We're a more mature society, and we don't need religion to hang on to.

_________________
Image
If you have found a bug, please click on Poneep(TM) and let us know!


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:49 pm 
Lieutenant Major
Lieutenant Major
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:49 pm
Posts: 1983
Location: ??? If you find me, you can win a prize
One thing that needs to be understood, is that the Bible has 2 parts... the Old and the New... Yes, God says that murder is wrong, but when things were told by God to be done, such as a war, it is to be done. This is why the crusades were so bad.... they claimed to be done in the name of Christ/God, and thus were justified.... but this is where that communication between God and Man is so crucial.
One can argue that God commands to not murder, yet he kills all the first born in Egypt as a plague. This is because God is not held to the same standard as man... and cannot be expected to.

When someone short-sighted looks at the Bible, looking only to find faults, that is all they will find... they will see contradictions, because they are looking for absolute truths. The Bible doesn't provide absolute truths, but rather provides truth absolutely. If you look at 2 things like the murder concept and the stories of the wars in the Bible, it would seem to be a contradiction, but it is rather displaying the history and the truth in that there is no global rule, except for the fact that there is no way to heaven but through Christ.
(and i know i just turned off a crap load of people with that kind of talk :P)

_________________
BD Community Member 7-8++?? years(retired)

My posts are NOT from spam... they are from suggestions :)

Working on new game (contact for info)


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: For all atheists (science was wrong) god exist!! = D
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:20 pm 
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:51 pm
Posts: 240
Gender: male
I am supposed to be a Catholic. I *used* to love the Bible and its teachings until I began reading it for myself. I hope you're not calling me short-sighted. I didn't just one day decide to pick up the Bible and start saying: Oh, contradiction here. Oh look another one here. Hohoho, genocide here.

No. I didn't. I've been studying the Bible for my life as a Catholic. I am forced to do this by my parents, while I disagree, nothing I would say would really change their minds. I will probably become a confirmed catholic since I won't be 18 yrs old by the time I'm confirmed and will have no choice in the matter. What's sad is, in the Catholic classes I'm in, I'm the one who knows the most about the Bible, and yet I don't believe in it. Most of the people there have yet to ever pick up a Bible and read it for themselves. They're ignorant and know nothing. I didn't want to be like that, so I picked one up and began reading.

For me, it was like a shock of disbelief. While God may not be held at the same standard why is it that he holds man at a standard and forces them to break that standard despite the fact they didn't want to? The Jews didn't even want to kill the Caananites. It's expressed many times that they feared the Caananites and would've rather integrated into their society. However, God was furious. These people were supposed to be his chosen, so he ordered the slaughter.

If you keep reading the Bible, it gets more and more apparent that God is manlike, not only by the what he does, but as to what he orders others to do. He has emotions.. anger, jealousy, even hatred at some points. He's supposed to be merciful and forgiving yet over and over he fails to uphold that image.

In some ways you're right though. Most of the Bible that I disagree with is in the Old Testament. There aren't many contradictions in the New Testament, if there are any at all ( besides obvious conflicting parts. ) I ask then why the sudden change of how God is? Suddenly, God doesn't have as many emotions. In fact, God rarely speaks in the New Testament ( besides Jesus. I'm talking about God being manlike and holding conversations with people like in the Old Testament. ) There's a major difference in writing. It's almost like there's a completely different God in the New Testament. Why is there such a monumental change? The Old Testament God being a jealous, angry, sometimes hateful God who talks to many people himself and orders wars and genocide.. then the New Testament God, a forgiving merciful God, who speaks little and humbly watches.

As a Christian you cannot deny the Old Testament though. It's in your Bible and you must believe it or you're going against your faith. You see, you can't just drop passages from the Bible that " don't apply " anymore or you're proving the God of the gaps theory more and more. So my questions are this:

Why are the Gods described in the Old Testament and the New Testament so different?

and

Why do Christians avoid/leave out parts of the Old Testament when teaching it in their faith. ( Personally, I never heard the story or the Caananites until I read it myself. )

_________________
Image
If you have found a bug, please click on Poneep(TM) and let us know!


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Copyright Tacticsoft Ltd. 2008   
Updated By phpBBservice.nl