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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:55 pm 
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In theory this should work, not sure if I agree or not.

Also I have a question. Do these new rules apply to all ongoing worlds?

I would also like to point this out. This new update will just give an enormous advantage to boosters.

How can you save up to compete against a boosting team?
You can say activity wins which is true in most cases but when you face boosters that pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars it's very unlikely you will win. They will just ware you down and ultimately in the end beat you.

Then you have a monopoly on tokens.
Thats my opinion but this change could be good. Who knows :)

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:56 pm 
AANC Mentors
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Logical123 wrote:
This decision, even though in fact it can make worlds more competitive, is really bad. First of all, forget diplomacy, which is personally my favorite part in the game! Top alliances wont need to even talk to one another because its clear, everyone will want first place.

in the end, yes everyone will fight each other, however you will need diplomacy in the middle because you need to work with others to take out other competition. Diplomacy will be fine, just different.

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:56 pm 
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colin wrote:
no point me boosting reds in a sub if im not getting anything out of it when i come 3ed or 2ed

This is the thinking I disagree with. Why settle for 2nd or 3rd when you have the possibility for first? You've lost before you even tried and it's due to your own decision.

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Usually in a normal era blues given out are around (10*2500=25,000 for rank 1)+(10*500=5,000 for all 10 relics) + (10*1500=15,000 2nd rank) + (10*500=5,000 3rd rank) = 50,000 blues total - pls correct me if i am wrong.

So now there will be given (3,000*10=30,000 for rank 1) + (10*500=5000 for 10 relics) = 35,000 blues total

So you are saying now we will have less blues handed over to players? !

i believe If you are to do that at least keep the numbers right.

And no i don't agree with this. There re players that can't boost so this way will never get a chance to win eras thus doomed to nothing. This will kill more poor players and will give more to boosters and gab among them will grow bigger. I really doubt it will help friends fight friends cause of blues.

I will play one era for you and you play one era for me....and so on...Changing the rules serves no purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:57 pm 
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abeyant has the right way of putting it

the team who killed the most armys should get winning tokens due to they were the ones really fighting

we did have an undate that went missing that sorted that out right? you got rank with your kills


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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:57 pm 
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It had been previously argued that it was hard work getting to the top and that losing to #1 was unfair since #2 would have worked so hard. In the interest of a doubt, we heard that and moved forward with rewards for #2 and #3.

It took a long time to see the detriment, but once we did, it was all too obvious and painful. While this change was in the best of intentions, historically, it has had the reverse of the intended effect.

Instead of increasing competition, offering such rewards for #2 and #3 has bred an atmosphere of complacency and wins through pure numbers and politics that shut entire teams of players out and stifle competition for many while concentrating more power in the game into the hands of a select few era after era. In retrospect, we have made this much worse by expanding rewards because then we have more teams willing to hand over a win to a single team without any competition because the 2nd and 3rd rank was "too much to risk losing".

Hindsight being 20/20, we realize now that not having anything to lose was the motivation in the first place. And while we sure showed our kind and generous side in agreeing with the proposals of expanding rewards, even most of the proponents of that movement that still linger around here see the error in it. The effect it has had in the long run, is in our honest opinions, certainly not for the better and it is a decision we have come to realize we must undo.

It is not about reds or blues or anything greed related. We are now and have always been a small indy company and we go much further out of our way to stimey our supporting players than any other online bbg in our genre. We also provide more in depth, hands on customer service than anyone else out there. You guys know we care. Once in a while, we require some faith in our decisions. ;)

Thanks everyone for understanding!

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Ilona wrote:
This is only the discussion thread. Main thread can be found here

Please state your opinions!



I generally dislike the idea because a "break" shoud be allowed for the top teams where they come to watch the next era and still get some tokens so they can go and win it again.And not everyone can boost that amount of reds to win an era.

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:01 pm 
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sparta23 wrote:
I know a lot of great players that need 2nd and third place blues to be competitive against big red boosters. You will get more comp sure. But your gonna kill the smaller guys that dont boost reds in the process. And watch as I simply dont boost at the beginning then when everyone gets killed off start boosting heavily. All this does is ruin the game for a lot of people. Strongly disagree with this.

Not saying this in a rude way or anything but you boost yourself do you not? I understand the thinking behind this post but also as one of the players that does not boost I feel I know the limitations a bit better as I constantly face them. Please don't take this as being rude or condescending as that is not my intention I just think we should let the non boosters speak for themselves rather than give them a voice we do not know to be accurate. This is one of the biggest things I've pushed for and I am glad to see it put into effect.

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Logical123 wrote:
This decision, even though in fact it can make worlds more competitive, is really bad. First of all, forget diplomacy, which is personally my favorite part in the game! Top alliances wont need to even talk to one another because its clear, everyone will want first place. This decision also only helps the people boosting :( Basically, there is no point in playing unless ur paying. You could play for fun but that wont challenge anyone who is not boosting. Maybe it could be a good idea to take out third place but second also. Thats crazy :( It should at least decrease the amount of blues an alliance in third or second place get. I personally hate this idea, its only good for the boosters and even they might not like it because diplomacy will change. If there is a player that is unhappy with the amount of competition going on, them maybe u should attack a strong alliance and enjoy yourself fighting. Plus if a third place alliance looks at a top alliance and their score is maybe 3 times as high, it will be very risky for the third alliance to boost reds and maybe they wont at all!!!!

during Kenny's Schoolyard era we went for that mindset, that everyone would go for the first rank. Yet we managed to do diplomacy well enough I believe we nearly established 2 factions at that time.
jebosamtimajku wrote:
Ilona wrote:
This is only the discussion thread. Main thread can be found here

Please state your opinions!



I generally dislike the idea because a "break" shoud be allowed for the top teams where they come to watch the next era and still get some tokens so they can go and win it again.And not everyone can boost that amount of reds to win an era.

if they aren't playing seriously, they shouldn't get rewarded...

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 Post subject: Re: No tokens for 2nd and 3rd alliance!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:02 pm 
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I like the idea of only the rank 1 alliance getting the reward, however, I do see the point of some of the counter arguments. The biggest one being, the non-boosters will have a much more troublesome time getting any rewards. Many eras end with alliances comprised of 8-10 boosters. This means, per world, 1 or 2 (or 0) who did not boost, will likely gain anything. And though we have our fantastic fanatics who have stuck with BD for a while, most newcomers will not want to pay to play.

As korupt stated though, it's a common misconception that you MUST boost to do well. I have gone many times without boosting a dime and still ranked well. However, this required commitment and lots of activity/coordination with teammates (something people seem to complain more and more about lately). Truly, I believe those who can commit more deserve more (otherwise, it's like asking for a raise when you put in the minimum amount of work into everything you do).

I would suggest making rank 1 alliance only receives reward, however, add more individual ranking rewards (so then people can at least fight to gain from their own personal achievements). Maybe up to rank 25 get's X amount of blues depending on however you wish to deal out the rewards. The cut off can easily be changed, but I think that would help offset the dismay. Usually, it's only the rank 1 alliances members getting any rewards anyways, so let's still give players a reason to try. Otherwise, if a person see's they can't make rank 1, they'll quit.

example:
individual rank 1-10 = +750 blues
individual rank 11-20 = 500 blues
individual rank 21-25 = 300 blues

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