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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Kind of late on this, but whatever.

In case anyone doesn't feel like reading my entire post, I'll just say I support Obama and I think Romney would screw the economy over even worse.

That said, I'll divide my post into four sections.

Opinion:
Spoiler:
Abortion: Obama is for, Romney is completely against. Personally, I am for.

Gay Marriage: Obama is for, Romney is again, strongly against. I am also for.

There are others that I can't remember but I do remember agreeing with Obama on every single issue.

Fact:
Spoiler:
(Please let me know if anything I state is incorrect. Also, disregard number specifics, they aren't directly relavant, they're examples.)
This is my main thing where I support Obama and not Romney. Income tax.

Obama supports a graduated tax scale.
Romney wants a flat tax rate.

Romney Explanation:
A flat income tax rate is where everyone pays a specific percentage of their income. The percentage is the same for everyone.

Example: 25% income tax.
Someone who makes 1 million dollars per year would have 25% tax.
They would pay 250k and have 750k left over.
Someone who makes 20k dollars per year would also have 25% tax.
They would pay 5k and have 15k left over.


Obama Explanation:
A graduated income tax scale means that people with more money pay a higher percentage of their income.

Example: 10% - 40% Tax Range
Someone who makes 1 million dollars per year would have 40% tax.
They would pay 400k and have 600k left over.
Someone who makes 10k dollars per year would have a 10% tax.
They would pay 2k and have 18k left over.


Some thoughts that some of you might have about this:

"It's not fair for the rich to pay so much more"
The rich can afford to pay more. 600k per year is enough to raise your kids until their 18 (assuming an average of 2 kids), pay for yourself and your husband/wife, and have money left over. Disagree? Here:
The average cost of raising a child is almost up to 300k (total, not per year). 2 children is 600k.
People making 1 mil per year with a 40% income tax can earn enough money to raise 2 kids until the age of 18 in a single year.
Once they have this money, they have 18 years of earning money where their kids are already paid for. With a 40% income tax, this totals to 10.8 million dollars that they have leftover. (7.2 mil going to the government)That .8 will cover the cost of the kid's college.
10 million left over after taxes.
Ten. Million.
This can be spent on providing for themselves (obviously). It would take care of the husband and wife for the rest of their lives with just 2 mil.
Speaking of for the rest of their lives, they make money then too. If they work for 20 years after their kids turn 18 and leave, that adds another 12 mil to them, and 8 mil to the government.
From the single year of working for child funds, 18 years of raising kids, and 20 years of work after, this totals 23.4 million for the family and 15.6 million for the government. In my estimates, the family spent 3.4 million. This has 20 million left over that the family didn't spend.
The government received 15.6 million dollar from ONE family.
The family still has 20 million more than they need.
The rich can quite definately afford a 40% income tax.


"It's not fair for the poor to pay less"
Really? A 10% tax is appropriate for people that are poor.
Using the 20k example, they'd pay 2k with a Graduated Tax Scale. With a Flat Tax Rate, they would pay 5 k.
The difference in this example is 3k. That 3k is needed for the poor to help themselves back up. They can do a lot more necessary things with 18k than they can with 15k. It's pretty common sense.


TL;DR:
Romney's Flat Tax Rate at 25%: The government would receive 255k per year with just these two families. The rich would have less tax and more money. The poor would have less money, which they need to get themselves up.
Obama's Graduated Tax Rate at 10% - 40%: The government would receive 402k per year from these two families. The rich would pay more and still have much more than they need for themselves and their kids. The poor would have more money to be able to get themselves up.



(If you find anything wrong in this post, don't blame me, blame my Civics teacher. Also, I didn't have type to proof-read.

Observations/Other:
Spoiler:
I've noticed that everyone who's supporting Romney is just stating "I support Romney, I'm against Obama." or some variant of that. Those supporting Obama seem to be able to back themselves up with facts.

I believe Obama may actually make progress this term. The House of Representatives (being Republican ruled) refused to collaborate with Obama since they wanted him to be a 1 term president. This time, there isn't a point in not trying to work with him.

Non-serious Comments:
Spoiler:
I would rather have just a 1st Lady than a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Lady.

Romney: "If the president is re-elected, 8 million people will be unemployed."
Obama: "8 million and 1*"
Romney: "..."

There was a rumor that Romney wanted to outlaw tampons. I lul'd.


Overall Conclusion:

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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:10 pm 
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you guys are just dont see the big picture about everything especially you ghoss you have stated absolutely NO FACTS about how romney is good and obama is bad

with Obama he has stopped the unemployement from it's constant drop since he had taken office and it's starting to slowly get better

he is also slowly withdrawing out of this middle east conflict that we are in and that will be cutting our spending aswell aka less money we will be putting into the debt

but the fact is yes our debt will rise and right now in the struggle that had started during the term of bush we have to put a lot of programs up that COST MONEY for the debt to be reduced at the case we are in we'd have to completely cut or reduce funding in a lot of important programs that is keeping US THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES from REALLY being effected by this and have a carton of milk cost $20 and gas be $15 a gallon (btw for those of you that really just cant figure to put the dots together our gas prices are rising partly because of the war because the military does infact require a lot of oil so dont be putting that on obama)

now if some1 can give me some legit arguments about how obama is bad and romney is good please post here and i will be happy to discuss it

but if you're just going to say oh no obama is socialist and our debt is going to rise unemployement is going to rise blah blah without having any LEGIT facts backing up then PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE nobody likes biased haters

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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:06 am 
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ghossfeld88 wrote:
Disappointed :/

More debt, more unemployment, stealing the money from people who worked hard to get it and giving it to the poor welfare people who wont work.

Socialism here we come


I am going to ask you the same thing I asked MendicantBias, what is socialism? In your words.

Debt would have increased under Romney since he was going to drop taxes and thus revenue.

Unemployment has been steadily dropping. There was this whole recession thing, you remember that? All signs point to a lower unemployment in the months and years to come. On what basis do you say there will be more unemployment?

Taxing is not stealing, its what you pay as part of society to society. Public funds go to public services like public roads, public schools, public hospitals as well as contribute to a safety net (welfare between jobs means your house doesnt default and the 10 years paying the mortgage payments on time arent lost). What if you had an illness that crippled your ability to work, would you proceed to kill yourself so you wont drain from society? If you think taxes are that bad, go bad mouth the founding fathers, taxes were ridiculously high back then (I believe the highest rate was a whopping 80%).

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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:25 am 
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ghossfeld88 wrote:
Socialism here we come

>Implying socialism isn't the best ism.

(seriously)


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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:32 am 
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mrducky wrote:
MendicantBias wrote:
Well im happy. With Obama for another 4 years America will hit rock bottom and the country will finaly wake up and see the socialism doesnt work. After were gona have 12 straight conservitive presidents. Trust me, im an expert.

A few questions if you will.

1. What is socialism in your own words, dont google it. Tell me what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... webw#t=34s

2. While struggling to write out what socialism is, were there any parallels between you and this grossly uneducated woman before you turned to google for help? You just gotta study it out.

3. With growth rates across the board and all long term estimates looking in the positive, what makes you think that 4 more years of Obama destroys USA? Could you cite certain legislature? Certain trends in policies? Words or promises from certain politicians that hint borderline apocalypse in the US? Because it would appear that you and I are living in different realities here. Well, I am living in the real world. You? I cannot speak for.

You know, compared to the rest of the developed world, Obama actually is conservative. So I guess you arent entirely wrong since the term conservative is completely relative to the speaker. I also can tell that left wing policy countries like Scandinavian ones are really struggling with their #1 positions in many fields ranging from state of living to education and health.


No google needed. Social is a form of goverment where the government has an excess of control. A socialist goverment enjoys things like high taxes and welfare. In an ideal socialist society there is no wealth gap or class system. Things lie middle class and high class dont exist. Dont think i dont know what im talking about. Iv done extensive research into the subject of American and world politics.

And while Obama may conservitive compared to the rest of the world, he is INSANELY liberal in American politics. America was founded as a "conservitive" nation.

And my reasons for thinking Obama will wreck America is that he wants to increase the welfare system and our dependence on the government. America was founded on the idea of each person making there own in the world. Obama wants people to rely on the government.

Im not to sure where your hate came from or why you think i dont know what im talking about. Im not college student or anything like that, but i have quite a bit of real world experiance.


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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:51 am 
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Quote:
Iv done extensive research into the subject of American and world politics.

Quote:
Conservitive



There is no reason to fear the 'evil socialism'. Just look at northern Europe. I'm sure you have already though, after your extensive research into world politics.

Spoiler:
Without left, there is no right.


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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:52 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
Quote:
Iv done extensive research into the subject of American and world politics.

Quote:
Conservitive



There is no reason to fear the 'evil socialism'. Just look at northern Europe. I'm sure you have already though, after your extensive research into world politics.

Spoiler:
Without left, there is no right.


I have no fear of socialism. I simply dont like what it stands for. I enjoy the right to be wealthy and own my firearms. I like being able to pick where i get my health care.

I dont understand people who willing vote for socialist when they wish to take these things away from us. No hate or fear. Just lack of understanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:55 am 
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ghossfeld88 wrote:
Disappointed :/

More debt, more unemployment, stealing the money from people who worked hard to get it and giving it to the poor welfare people who wont work.

Socialism here we come


WHAT is SOCIALISM TO YOU?!

How you can talk about it LIGHTLY?! Are you kind of a person like that?!

''Disappointed'' -- Okay, I can understand but, how you can talk about socialism talk lightly?

Here we go Socialism.

Are you enough serious to understand that's a most IMMATURE thing from someone I look up to, you have a big experience of this game and you're probably older than me. I understand mistakes but...

how can you talk about socialism lightly? What it is to you? Do you even exactly know what's socialism, so you can talk about it immature?


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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:05 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
Quote:
Iv done extensive research into the subject of American and world politics.

Quote:
Conservitive



There is no reason to fear the 'evil socialism'. Just look at northern Europe. I'm sure you have already though, after your extensive research into world politics.

Spoiler:
Without left, there is no right.


I always find it funny to hear Americans discussing socialism. Even your "left" Obama is far more to the right of the political spectrum than our right politicians here.

Living in the Netherlands, I can tell you that socialism has many flaws. It has gone way too far here. It is always more economically rewarding to simply get social welfare than to work (literally). My father will soon have to pay around 450 euros per month for medical insurance, even though he only goes to the doctor about once a year, or even less. On the other hand those that get social welfare only have to pay 20 euros per month, even though statistically they are the ones that make the most use of healthcare.

So.. Not really making a point here for Obama or Romney, as both are far more right than anything here. But I do believe socialism fails.

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 Post subject: Re: Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:43 am 
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Living in China, I honestly beg to differ.

Socialism has proven to work in several places. People say that China is capitalist, especially in the cities--I disagree. The market today is still fundamentally run by the government, and I do believe that the rules and regulations set have improved the lives of the Chinese.

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