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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:29 pm 
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No, you cant do it for any current era. Ive been watching joe for a while now, and it simply has not happened. If it was happening, a report to an admin would be able to trigger an inspection, which would substantiate a claim. This is not possible for you or for me, so it is pointless. All of this is pointless Milan, and you know it. That is what makes this a trolling mission!

I have had hard times as an admin too. Just a few months ago, I fell behind on 2 worlds without realizing it. I might have even overlooked some multi reports.

I have also been accused of being "corrupt" or "on the take". So were you, whether you knew it or not, as an admin. It is not uncommon, because players are biased by their experiences enough to where if the admin does not rule in their favor, these accusations are VERY common! That does NOT mean that they are rooted in any basis!

One last time. 30 minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Joe is a bit late to respond.
Too much cheating on Mars caused me to just stop playing BD.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:33 pm 
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ohitstyler wrote:
Joe is a bit late to respond.
Too much cheating on Mars caused me to just stop playing BD.


Late to respond, when? In the last 2 weeks, I have found him to be well within his perameters as an admin, most often logging in twice a day (once in the morning and once in the evening).

More information is needed, or this is just a baseless claim.

And what cheating? More information is needed, or you might as well spit into the wind.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Seth wrote:
No, you cant do it for any current era. Ive been watching joe for a while now, and it simply has not happened. If it was happening, a report to an admin would be able to trigger an inspection, which would substantiate a claim. This is not possible for you or for me, so it is pointless. All of this is pointless Milan, and you know it. That is what makes this a trolling mission!


I do not fully understand what you are saying here. It is not possible for either you or me to substantiate a claim? Then who would be able to substantiate a claim?

And Seth.

Quote:
The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly pissing people off, usually via the internet, using dialogue. Trolling does not mean just making rude remarks: Shouting swear words at someone doesn't count as trolling; it's just flaming, and isn't funny. Spam isn't trolling either; it pisses people off, but it's lame.


I am not deliberately and cleverly pissing people off. I believe this does not piss off many people, at most they will be slightly annoyed by me taking up space with this thread and this showing up in their active topics. If what I wanted to do was piss people off, there would be many more effective ways to do it. So no, I am not trolling. Please stop calling me a troll.

Quote:
I have had hard times as an admin too. Just a few months ago, I fell behind on 2 worlds without realizing it. I might have even overlooked some multi reports.

I have also been accused of being "corrupt" or "on the take". So were you, whether you knew it or not, as an admin. It is not uncommon, because players are biased by their experiences enough to where if the admin does not rule in their favor, these accusations are VERY common! That does NOT mean that they are rooted in any basis!

One last time. 30 minutes.


I'm not denying that every admin gets this from time to time. However it is no secret that some admins get these accusations more often than others. And from what I have heard, there are a lot less accusations of for example Simmen than of Joe. Why? Because on the one side you have an admin that is active and participates in the community and on the other side you have an admin that very often does not reply and rarely if ever posts on the forum. Realistically the times admin Joe posts on the forums is to defend himself from accusations.

And Seth, my point is not even that Joe is "corrupt or on the take". My point is that he is a lot less active than other admins potentially can be, because he has a fulltime job and that does not leave him much time for BD. It is no personal fault of his as BD is not enough to do as a fulltime job, but I believe that for the players it is better to have an admin that is more active and can therefore respond faster.

Edit:

Quote:
Late to respond, when? In the last 2 weeks, I have found him to be well within his perameters as an admin, most often logging in twice a day (once in the morning and once in the evening).

More information is needed, or this is just a baseless claim.

And what cheating? More information is needed, or you might as well spit into the wind.


Logging in does not mean you are actively hunting cheaters and are helpfully answering messages. My personal experience from not only that F6 era but also my more recent era on M1 is that it is very hard to get a reply from Joe. As far as more information is needed on the cheating, a player spawning with 0 achievements just to create around 33 inf and to spam everything in sight while at the same time coincidentally your radars and gates around that newbie get jammed and that person not being banned within 24 hours. That is what I mean by not catching cheating effectively.

But then again, as I was very busy defending from multi spam and trying to find out how to defend from it, and I could not be 100% sure it was a multi and as I as a normal user can not see whether there is a relationship between the jamming or whether the newbie is actually a multi or not, I do not have hard proof to present here indeed.

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Last edited by Milanos on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Quote:
Late to respond, when?

I remember lots of instances when Joe has been late to respond to messages from me, and generally just dealing with situations worse than I believe other admins would have.

But this is from quite some time ago, I don't even play anymore. These aren't "baseless claims" because I'm not trying to claim anything. I'm just giving what I can recall from experience. However baseless it may be.

At which point does the sheer amount of baseless negative opinion of something because the basis to take action? That is my question. If the answer is never, then fair enough. It doesn't effect me either way.


I do assume though that most people do not go out of their way to take screen shots and report everything as it happens. It's not worth the effort. Most people complain about admins and/or their actions in skype chats rather than to you. So if you think you've heard a lot of complaints about joe, I can guarentee we have heard more. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Admin Joe being a bad Admin has nothing to do with you , that era you spoke about is from long ago and is now pointless. This thread in my opinion is disrespectful .


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:53 pm 
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Diazepam wrote:
Quote:
Late to respond, when?

I remember lots of instances when Joe has been late to respond to messages from me, and generally just dealing with situations worse than I believe other admins would have.

But this is from quite some time ago, I don't even play anymore. These aren't "baseless claims" because I'm not trying to claim anything. I'm just giving what I can recall from experience. However baseless it may be.

At which point does the sheer amount of baseless negative opinion of something because the basis to take action? That is my question. If the answer is never, then fair enough. It doesn't effect me either way.


I do assume though that most people do not go out of their way to take screen shots and report everything as it happens. It's not worth the effort. Most people complain about admins and/or their actions in skype chats rather than to you. So if you think you've heard a lot of complaints about joe, I can guarentee we have heard more. :lol:



Saying "this one era, on this one world, Joe was late to respond" does me no good, and does you no good. This makes it pointless. As I stated, in recent history, I have found no basis for wrongdoing claims against Joe, and that is the hard evidence I have before me.


I too have had past eras where I did a poor job because of personal or family reasons (especially when my daughter was born). I too have been accused of being corrupt or on the take. Does this mean that I too should be replaced now? Does this mean that if you can rally enough of your friends into a conversation that simply agree to say the same thing as you, that I should be replaced? I should hope not!

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Quote:
Saying "this one era, on this one world, Joe was late to respond" does me no good, and does you no good. This makes it pointless. As I stated, in recent history, I have found no basis for wrongdoing claims against Joe, and that is the hard evidence I have before me.


I too have had past eras where I did a poor job because of personal or family reasons (especially when my daughter was born). I too have been accused of being corrupt or on the take. Does this mean that I too should be replaced now? Does this mean that if you can rally enough of your friends into a conversation that simply agree to say the same thing as you, that I should be replaced? I should hope not!


Again, I never claimed that the conversation I posted should be proof enough for you to find a new admin. All I am trying to do here is to make you, and potentially others, see that it might be time to search for a new admin to replace Joe, an admin that can be more active and can better respond to user's needs.

Since all we can do is say "this one era this happened", since all we can do is speak from our own experience, will you discount all our experiences as unbased and pointless? They are still experiences that count towards our satisfaction from Battledawn, and should therefore matter to you.

Are you saying that even if 10,000 people came here and said they had the same experience, it would in no way change your opinion?

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Quote:
Saying "this one era, on this one world, Joe was late to respond" does me no good, and does you no good. This makes it pointless.


Well yes, that would do nobody any good and would be pointless. Surprisingly though that's not what I said.


Quote:
As I stated, in recent history, I have found no basis for wrongdoing claims against Joe, and that is the hard evidence I have before me.


And in not so recent history, when I used to play, I have found a large basis for wrongdoing claims against joe, and that is the hard evidence I have before me.

What is the problem with that? The problem is that I am not supplying you with the hard evidence. This is why you do not believe me. You can't just take our word for it without evidence and go by what you see, before going by what we see.

The same goes both ways. Milanos is going by what he has seen. Not what you are telling him you have seen.


Remember though, I don't actually play and don't care if admin Joe does well or not. I just like these kinds of threads.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of an admin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:07 pm 
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first of all, we appreciate all opinions and if its about a not so good performance of any admin, you should be always feel free to post it in here as well.
We always try to improve our service and things like 'admin rating' on all servers should show that as well.

Back to this topic, we should face the facts. Fact is, that we as admins should reply / take action if needed within 24 hours. With this, Joe is doing good.
Fact is, that we try to limit abuses due game mechanics. There are only some points left which are not covered. Thats farming and multis. With this Joe is doing fine as well.
Also a fact is, that Joe asked me several times to look up his worlds before he did a ban as we both knew that every ban he would do especially to some nations will cause a riot here in the forum. He was in NO way asked to get a 2nd opinion, he just wanted to do it.
About 'being active' : how many games you play where you'll get a direct and personally reply to your messages within 1 WEEK?
I dont play many games, but for now I didn't find one.

It might be me, and also I am just about to get myself fired :lol: , but getting an admin more active shouldn't be the goal at all.
the goal should be - and for this we need the help of the community - is making a game which doesn't requires any admin actions.
For now, we are not anyway near to this goal. And as long as we a far from this, I can see 4 admins on 16 worlds and none of this servers has been without admin activity longer than 24h for the last 6 months.
We become ill, have a RL, join a party, etc etc like everyone else and still its manageable.
Milan, you as (ex-) admin should know how it is and how important every player and his/her opinion is to us. You guys and gals ARE the game.
I'd really appreciate when you come up with helpfully suggestions how to solve issues with in-game mechanics so that admin activity is less needed instead of trying to find a more active admin as replacement which shouldn't be the goal.

Cheers,

- Ilona

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