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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:55 pm 
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The Nazis were one of the largest religious groups at the time. And they didn't just target those of Jewish decent, they targeted any person who shared Hebrew beliefs. The reason no one knows of this is because it would make the church look bad. It was censored so much, most teachers and professors don't even know it.

However anyone who read Hitler"Mien Kampaf" would know how much of a bible thumper he was.

and it doesn't matter whether the people who start wars actually believe in there religious cause, it is still the excuse used to justify it.

If you people look would past the point that they don't have to believe what they are saying, the fact of using religion as an excuse to go to war, is still a cause.


Nazism is not a religion. Its national socialism. A political idealogy. The Anti-Semitism was based on the white nationalism, Master race concept that Hitler propagandized. Anti-Semitism is not a religious conflict with Jews. Its the nature of being Jewish, that is hated in Anti-Semitism.Anti-Semitic people dont really care about Judaism as such. They just hate Jewish people because they stereotype them in ways that they think is evil. Thats Xenophobia and Racism, not religious hatred.

Secondly I have read the Mein Kampf. It talks about his childhood, his life in Vienna, his Anti-Semitism or rather his justification for his hatred of the Jews, Nation and race principle and more importantly German Nationalism that he was extremely passionate about. Religion is just a small part of it. Infact there is a set of transcripts called Hitlers Table Talk where he seems to have negative views of Christianity. In his speeches and books however he spoke positively about Christianity, sought to eliminate "Jewish elements" from Christianity and tried to instill Nazi principles.

Now Hitlers extreme Anti-Semitism, was not because he hated Judaism. It stems from the defeat of Germany in 1918. Jews had played a major role in overthrowing the monarchy that caused WW1. So his view that liberal, communist and socialist and in other words, Jews caused Germany's defeat not on the battlefield but from within, caused him to Hate Jews. Because of his passion for German Nationalism. Therefore he decided to eliminate the Jews because he believed they were inferior and that they didnt have a place in the Third Reich and that if they lived, they would poison the nation from within.
Infact his anti-Semitism back then was nothing different from what the rest of Europe felt. He was simply voicing public opinion. Anti-Semitism has long been an European tradition, and you can see it to this day in Europe amongst predominantly leftist countries like Sweden, Norway, France etc.., where Israel has a very poor rating. On top of people believing in conspiracy theories that Jews control the world, promote multiculturalism (feature of white nationalism) etc etc.,

For example in the Mein Kampf he says:

“For the Jew was still characterized for me by nothing but his religion, and therefore, on grounds of human tolerance, I maintained my rejection of religious attacks in this case as in others. Consequently, the tone, particularly that of the Viennese anti-Semitic press, seemed to me unworthy of the cultural tradition of a great nation”.

Therefore WW2 had everything to do with German Nationalism, Racism and the establishment of the Third Reich. It had nothing to do with Religion.

Oh and BTW, Hebrew beliefs? Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all Abrahamic faiths aka "Hebrew beliefs".

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:36 pm 
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mfreak wrote:
Quote:
The Nazis were one of the largest religious groups at the time. And they didn't just target those of Jewish decent, they targeted any person who shared Hebrew beliefs. The reason no one knows of this is because it would make the church look bad. It was censored so much, most teachers and professors don't even know it.

However anyone who read Hitler"Mien Kampaf" would know how much of a bible thumper he was.

and it doesn't matter whether the people who start wars actually believe in there religious cause, it is still the excuse used to justify it.

If you people look would past the point that they don't have to believe what they are saying, the fact of using religion as an excuse to go to war, is still a cause.


Nazism is not a religion. Its national socialism. A political idealogy. The Anti-Semitism was based on the white nationalism, Master race concept that Hitler propagandized. Anti-Semitism is not a religious conflict with Jews. Its the nature of being Jewish, that is hated in Anti-Semitism.Anti-Semitic people dont really care about Judaism as such. They just hate Jewish people because they stereotype them in ways that they think is evil. Thats Xenophobia and Racism, not religious hatred.

Secondly I have read the Mein Kampf. It talks about his childhood, his life in Vienna, his Anti-Semitism or rather his justification for his hatred of the Jews, Nation and race principle and more importantly German Nationalism that he was extremely passionate about. Religion is just a small part of it. Infact there is a set of transcripts called Hitlers Table Talk where he seems to have negative views of Christianity. In his speeches and books however he spoke positively about Christianity, sought to eliminate "Jewish elements" from Christianity and tried to instill Nazi principles.

Now Hitlers extreme Anti-Semitism, was not because he hated Judaism. It stems from the defeat of Germany in 1918. Jews had played a major role in overthrowing the monarchy that caused WW1. So his view that liberal, communist and socialist and in other words, Jews caused Germany's defeat not on the battlefield but from within, caused him to Hate Jews. Because of his passion for German Nationalism. Therefore he decided to eliminate the Jews because he believed they were inferior and that they didnt have a place in the Third Reich and that if they lived, they would poison the nation from within.
Infact his anti-Semitism back then was nothing different from what the rest of Europe felt. He was simply voicing public opinion. Anti-Semitism has long been an European tradition, and you can see it to this day in Europe amongst predominantly leftist countries like Sweden, Norway, France etc.., where Israel has a very poor rating. On top of people believing in conspiracy theories that Jews control the world, promote multiculturalism (feature of white nationalism) etc etc.,

For example in the Mein Kampf he says:

“For the Jew was still characterized for me by nothing but his religion, and therefore, on grounds of human tolerance, I maintained my rejection of religious attacks in this case as in others. Consequently, the tone, particularly that of the Viennese anti-Semitic press, seemed to me unworthy of the cultural tradition of a great nation”.

Therefore WW2 had everything to do with German Nationalism, Racism and the establishment of the Third Reich. It had nothing to do with Religion.

Oh and BTW, Hebrew beliefs? Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all Abrahamic faiths aka "Hebrew beliefs".


Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
-*CENSORED* (Mein Kampf)

Right out of the book. Now do you seriously want to argue that this wasn't because of religion??? Because i can all week with you. I have met people who personally knew Hitler, I feel i have good idea what kind of person he was.

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:37 pm 
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aister wrote:
China invaded us back in 207 BC. And we have a war to regain freedom at 40 AD but failed.

225 AD
and lots of wars between 544 – 602 that I'm not going to list them out
938, we have another war and won against China. Hence claiming indepence...
then at 979, China invaded us again but we defended the nation
1075 AD
1128 AD the once-nation of Champa invaded us
The Mongolian, who conquered almost all Asia and Europe invaded us in 1257 AD, 1284 AD, and 1288 AD but we brushed them off.
1407 AD
1418 AD
1974
1979
and the most recent dispute about the Spratly Islands

I don't mention US war, French and Japanese invasion, the civil war and our invasion to former nation of Champa and Cambodia.

All of them, no religion reason is used to wage war as well as excuses to continue the war.

Point taken.

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:47 pm 
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felgrand08 wrote:
dylsupreme1 wrote:
Lol. You're basically saying discrimination in itself is genocide. The holocaust isn't 'the mass discrimination of jews', it's 'the mass extermination of jews.'

Very well. Although it could be argued that Russia still counted as an ally of Germany.


Discrimination is not genocide, however in this case, it was the prelude to genocide.



But you said that the holocaust started before the war.


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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:04 pm 
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dylsupreme1 wrote:
felgrand08 wrote:
dylsupreme1 wrote:
Lol. You're basically saying discrimination in itself is genocide. The holocaust isn't 'the mass discrimination of jews', it's 'the mass extermination of jews.'

Very well. Although it could be argued that Russia still counted as an ally of Germany.


Discrimination is not genocide, however in this case, it was the prelude to genocide.



But you said that the holocaust started before the war.


Prelude-means before

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
-*CENSORED* (Mein Kampf)

Right out of the book. Now do you seriously want to argue that this wasn't because of religion??? Because i can all week with you. I have met people who personally knew Hitler, I feel i have good idea what kind of person he was


Yes. Just because someone says Am doing the will of the almighty creator does not mean he is a bible thumper doing it because of religion. Especially WW2. Saying so is the height of ignorance. FFS. And you can argue all week with me, Ill gurarantee you that you will lose. And saying you have MET people who knew Hitler, is BSing people here. People here arent fools.

There is far more in the Mein Kampf that gives you reasons for WW2. And the reason solely was German Nationalism. Everything else stemmed from it.

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:17 am 
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I certainly believe in the Lord. I have seen too many things in my life that could simply not have been coincidence, but will not bore you with details.

I don't go to church. I do not believe that he lives in a building. At least not in a specific building. I think he is as much in my home as any old dusty church, as long as i love him and believe in him, as he loves & believes in me.

I have a great appreciation for his artwork both past and present. Many different religions, mythologies, societies, doctrines, faiths....just so many versions of him everywhere you look. One of my favorite things though, is the geometry.

Sacred geometry to me, is the single largest indicator that there is a design. There is something infinite, and immeasurable, that exists in ways we as humans cannot even begin to imagine to fathom. Within just a few days of being turned on to Sacred Geometry, it had completely changed the way I looked at the world around me. Once you begin to understand it, you literally begin to see it everywhere, and in everything.

How this relates to you, or your life, or why we are here, or what our purpose is. I do not know. I know only that this world is some form of very dark test. I am not sure yet if I know how to pass exactly. I certainly hope it is not so dark when i finally leave this place. I also hope that my Lord looks after my children well.

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:56 am 
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:ugeek: for me i think it doesn't matter if he is real or fake. only thing matters is faith in his name. no matter what you call him. believing in him gives you a power in tough time. knowing he will save you. that makes a man a lot more stronger from inside. he can enjoy his life as he wants. as kid plays more freely. when his parent is around. so its the faith and believe in him. when nothing works your way , his name gives you power to stand up again.

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:52 pm 
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i prefer to believe in science, the real world is so much more unbelievably believable that even raw facts and data can paint a world more vivid then to say some being created it.

its not materialism, its a simple humbling understanding that we are stardust, that we eat stardust, breathe stardust, defecate stardust, parts of us require the force of supernovae to spread across the universe. cause that stardust aint getting out otherwise.

"god did it" takes away a lot of the splendour, makes the reality of it all less magical and more fantasy.

which is cooler, the earth beneath us was the coalescing of trillions of mini blocks and billions of kilos of stardust or the slain body of the frost giant ymir attached to the tree yggdrassil or carved out of the void by the rainbow serpent or thought and spoken into existence over 7 days by bearded magic being?

stardust. stardust all the way. that and because it actually makes sense. be awed by nature. its there to awe you. humble you. inspire you.


anyone get the following reference?
its turtles all the way down guys.

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 Post subject: Re: God: real or fake?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:22 pm 
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mfreak wrote:
Quote:
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
-*CENSORED* (Mein Kampf)

Right out of the book. Now do you seriously want to argue that this wasn't because of religion??? Because i can all week with you. I have met people who personally knew Hitler, I feel i have good idea what kind of person he was


Yes. Just because someone says Am doing the will of the almighty creator does not mean he is a bible thumper doing it because of religion. Especially WW2. Saying so is the height of ignorance. FFS. And you can argue all week with me, Ill gurarantee you that you will lose. And saying you have MET people who knew Hitler, is BSing people here. People here arent fools.

There is far more in the Mein Kampf that gives you reasons for WW2. And the reason solely was German Nationalism. Everything else stemmed from it.


You don't have to believe in a religion to use it as an excuse. And yes i met someone who knew Hitler. She was a German national who moved here in the 80s. She was a friend of Hitlers wife. I didn't know her very well, but i did know her.

And yes, Mein Kampf may have been based around German nationalism however there was allot of references to God. God may not have been the largest reason, but it was A reason. I am not saying it was the only reason, it was one of many.

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