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what are you
for 64%  64%  [ 39 ]
against 28%  28%  [ 17 ]
undecided 8%  8%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 61
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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Who says I'm trying to compare Norway to Poland? I'm not fantastic at explaining myself though, so maybe it sounded like that. I haven't looked up the homeless statistics in norway or anything. All I know is that almost anyone else deserves that money to be spent on them more than the serial killer. While on the subject of norway though, I applaud their low crime and murder rates. Maybe if I lived somewhere more like that I would have different views on the death penalty. Who knows.

Once you go on a killing spree. from my point of view, your human rights are gone. I don't those people as equals. If it were my choice, those people would be dead. Not because I'm thinking "grrr I'm so angry, I want payback!", like you would love to believe. But because in my eyes, they signed off their "human rights" when they commited such a sick act(s). The way I think of it, they are below human.

inb4 "but I already told you it costs more to kill someone etc". I've already responded to that.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:44 am 
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I see where you are coming from Diazepam. But losing freedom itself is losing something substantial. Killing is simply the easy way out. Both for us and the criminal. On top of being barbaric that is.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:35 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
All I know is that almost anyone else deserves that money to be spent on them more than the serial killer.

so justice is ignored? all criminals lose out, jails just become holding cells for people to slowly starve to death in. what you are suggesting is the subversion of justice. what if a person killed another in self defense by gets sentenced to man slaughter? shoudnt waste money on them when there are children with cancer afoot. what about other jurisdictions where drug trafficking results in death penalty, no need for a court appointed lawyer, lets just prosecute by default because we arent wasting money on a no good drug lord. just serial killers? what about non serial killers but killers nonetheless that dont show remorse? what about the killers who show remorse in later years of incarceration?

Diazepam wrote:
Once you go on a killing spree. from my point of view, your human rights are gone. I don't those people as equals. If it were my choice, those people would be dead. Not because I'm thinking "grrr I'm so angry, I want payback!", like you would love to believe. But because in my eyes, they signed off their "human rights" when they commited such a sick act(s). The way I think of it, they are below human.

inb4 "but I already told you it costs more to kill someone etc". I've already responded to that.

kill one person kill five people. link back to what i have typed above.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:43 am 
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There's nothing in that post that I can sensibly reply to. If you don't understand/accept/whatever my view on the death penalty by now then there isn't much else I can say to explain it better. There's no point asking me "what about xyz criminal in xyz country". I've already explained in previous posts which criminals I was talking about and my imaginary, ideal form of the death penalty. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:06 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
There's nothing in that post that I can sensibly reply to. If you don't understand/accept/whatever my view on the death penalty by now then there isn't much else I can say to explain it better. There's no point asking me "what about xyz criminal in xyz country". I've already explained in previous posts which criminals I was talking about and my imaginary, ideal form of the death penalty. :lol:

alright then, how come you insist that money not be spent on justice? on ensuring that society doesnt become more monstrous than the criminal?

what about the middle ground when it comes to homicide? killing spree = 2 people? 4 people? 6 people?

at what point do you suddenly waive away human rights because for you it is simply convenient?

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:18 am 
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alright then, how come you insist that money not be spent on justice? on ensuring that society doesnt become more monstrous than the criminal?

I don't insist that.

Quote:
what about the middle ground when it comes to homicide? killing spree = 2 people? 4 people? 6 people?

Regular life inprisonment i'd say.

Quote:
at what point do you suddenly waive away human rights because for you it is simply convenient?

When they kill people for stupid reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:56 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
Quote:
alright then, how come you insist that money not be spent on justice? on ensuring that society doesnt become more monstrous than the criminal?

I don't insist that.

but you think that the justice system should be drained for the homeless, who are likely part of the justice system themselves.


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what about the middle ground when it comes to homicide? killing spree = 2 people? 4 people? 6 people?

Regular life inprisonment i'd say.

so 6 people = life in prison but suddenly 7 people is horrifying? that results in the death penalty? you need to be consistent when it comes to justice

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at what point do you suddenly waive away human rights because for you it is simply convenient?

When they kill people for stupid reasons.

brilliant, lets be vague and use the subjective 'stupid reasons' as the reason. this is reinforcing the idea that its inconvenient to you, therefore kill it.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:11 am 
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So Ducky. You're saying that if someone kills people, he shouldn't be killed himself?


Guess what? Prison isn't even bad to people like that. Or regular people. I read a story where a guy stayed in prison 14 years just to avoid paying alimony.

http://www.judicialaccountability.org/a ... /7year.htm


I'm just saying. Why worry about taking the moral high ground? Rapists and murderers certainly don't, and they could care less what happens to themselves or others. Give sympathy to those who deserve it. Most of those people are sociopaths and psychopaths that take advantage of people and hurt them, and they would still do that before, during, and after prison. I don't care if it's "similar to nazi eugenics", because those type of people are mentally deficient and don't deserve to live.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:15 am 
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mrducky wrote:

but you think that the justice system should be drained for the homeless, who are likely part of the justice system themselves.


No, I don't think that. :)

so 6 people = life in prison but suddenly 7 people is horrifying? that results in the death penalty? you need to be consistent when it comes to justice

The word horrifying does not come into the equation in my mind. I've been consistant. I've used the word serial killers and terrorists. You are the only one that is trying to bring in other criminals to the matter.

brilliant, lets be vague and use the subjective 'stupid reasons' as the reason. this is reinforcing the idea that its inconvenient to you, therefore kill it.

I was considering putting a disclaimer about my vague statement, and/or giving some stupid reasons as an example. But I assumed my point would be understood due to the simplicity of it. But I guess not.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:57 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
No, I don't think that. :)

than why were you so adamant on taking money out for the supposed homeless person in norway that many people are still eager to see

The word horrifying does not come into the equation in my mind. I've been consistant. I've used the word serial killers and terrorists. You are the only one that is trying to bring in other criminals to the matter.

thats because crime is a slider. surely 8 killings is worse than 4 killings?

I was considering putting a disclaimer about my vague statement, and/or giving some stupid reasons as an example. But I assumed my point would be understood due to the simplicity of it. But I guess not.

still making it look like the main reason you want to get rid of people is out of convenience more than anything.


dylsupreme1 wrote:
So Ducky. You're saying that if someone kills people, he shouldn't be killed himself?

im saying the state shouldnt kill him, that is barbaric for a developed nations' society to continue to do that. believe it or not, most countries agree with the exception of a few states in USA and i think singapore.

Guess what? Prison isn't even bad to people like that. Or regular people. I read a story where a guy stayed in prison 14 years just to avoid paying alimony.

http://www.judicialaccountability.org/a ... /7year.htm

it wasnt a small amount of alimony. 2.5 mil perhaps even 8 mil if it were sold just before the economic downturn. perhaps he is telling the truth and it was all lost. then that is a failure in the judicial system. it would also mean he isnt in prison by choice
moreover there are varying jails, he would have gone to minimum security considering the threat he poses which is far more relaxed than maximum security jails.


I'm just saying. Why worry about taking the moral high ground? Rapists and murderers certainly don't, and they could care less what happens to themselves or others. Give sympathy to those who deserve it. Most of those people are sociopaths and psychopaths that take advantage of people and hurt them, and they would still do that before, during, and after prison. I don't care if it's "similar to nazi eugenics", because those type of people are mentally deficient and don't deserve to live.

why not rape and torture them right before we kill them to make a point to other criminals?
why not cut off hands for minor theft?
why not? because we arent animals. im talking about developed nations here and i know society can do better than simply destroying other humans because it is deemed a just solution. we take the moral high ground so as to be better than criminal scum. to be better than psychopaths. to demonstrate what being a human is all about, something beyond mere eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. its not sympathy to the criminals im giving, its a state of care for the rest of society.
again i ask you, why take the moral high ground? you rape and torture the prisoner first while we film it and release it to scare people away from crime. why take the moral high ground you ask? disgusting rebuttal of yours, disgusting counter as food for thought.

of course we take the moral high ground. we arent sociopaths nor psychopaths. that much should be self explanatory for any law abiding moral citizen.


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