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what are you
for 63%  63%  [ 39 ]
against 27%  27%  [ 17 ]
undecided 10%  10%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 62
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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:33 am 
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Cost is something I am not even willing to consider as a legitimate argument.

You claim not to see any real reasons why people are "for" the death penalty, yet you aren't willing to consider the reasons we give legitimate?

This explains your problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:20 am 
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Firstly, people do say who deserves to live and who doesnt. Infact, that's what happens when it comes to the death penalty. You know... the thing we are discussing?

Secondly, I do not think terrorists and serial killers deserve 3 meals a day. I wouldn't mind if they starved to death in their jail cells. I know you're going to tell me a bunch of "facts" about how terrible and "wrong" my opinion is though.

And it seems you have missed my point. Either that or you just "know" it's wrong and irrelevant. I feel that feeding serial killers 3 meals a day is wrong when there are starving children who do not get the same kind of treatment. You were asking for reasons as to why someone (me in this case) would be for the death penalty. Please attempt to understand that this is one of my reasons. It is a moral reason. I'm not trying to prove that my reason is factual evidence that the death penalty is the right choice. I am simply stating the reasons why I am for it, as you claimed not to know any of them before.


I agree people do say, who deserves to live and who doesnt. You are doing it. This is what is wrong about it. Again, its not a question of feeding them. Whats morally wrong is that we aren't doing anything for people below the poverty line. Homeless children, homeless people etc., We have billionaires and we have the poorest of the poor. Not being considerate enough for these people, might be called morally wrong. I agree. So while feeding terrorists and serial killers 3 times a day, please let us also do something for these kids. Maybe more. Maybe help them get to school.

Now just because its wrong that these people dont get fed, does it make it right to kill people? I mean how does this justify the death penalty in anyway? It just doesnt!! This is like saying 2 wrongs make a right. They dont.

We also have legitimate people above the law, that have caused millions of deaths. Like President Bush. He lives a kings life. Now we let him live, and kill a criminal in one of our jails?? How does it make you right?

Quote:
Again, your trying to push the USA model of the death penalty onto what I have said. Unless you don't understand what I have said previously about this, please stop doing this...


No I am not. I am talking about India. We spend billions too on weapons too. So why is it a problem to feed a few criminals? Why should we have a death penalty that's barbaric by nature. We shouldnt. Its the 21st century.

Quote:
I don't understand your request for examples on "how something bad was made worse". It probably isn't relevant anyway though


I was just saying that, to make the case that the death penalty does not do any good.

Quote:
You claim not to see any real reasons why people are "for" the death penalty, yet you aren't willing to consider the reasons we give legitimate?

This explains your problem.


I am not willing to consider cost of doing this or that, as legitimate reasons for death penalty, cuz I wont put a price tag on someones life, criminal or not. This does not justify the death penalty, this is like an excuse to execute someone.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:29 am 
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No I am not. I am talking about India.

My bad. Although the point still stands.

@The rest of it. It isn't worth any more of my time to try to "convince" you that I have reasons for being in favour of the death penalty. I have explained my reasons like you requested and that's enough for me. If you can't accept that I have opinions and views that differ from yours without assuming they are wrong and stupid, that's not my problem. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:33 am 
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I accept you have opinions. But I just think they are wrong is all. Cuz they are just based on what is cheaper, or atleast what you think is cheaper. Whereas your reasons would be more valid if they somehow improved society or made the system better. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:44 am 
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No I am not. I am talking about India. We spend billions too on weapons too. So why is it a problem to feed a few criminals? Why should we have a death penalty that's barbaric by nature. We shouldnt. Its the 21st century.



People are barbaric by nature. Sure we try to act civilized and try to act like gentlemen but humans and Animals are barbaric by nature. Why do you think fps games like Halo and Call of Duty sell so well. People are animals. In fact here's a quote i read

Quote:
Our core is madness. The prime directive is murder. What Darwin was too polite to say, my friends, is that we came to rule the earth not because we were the smartest, or even the meanest, but because we have always been the craziest, most murderous motherfu***** in the jungle.”


Yes this motive has diminished in our lives but all people still believe that certain people should be condemned with capital punishment. There will always be those people who deserve to die and if they should die, they don't deserve a merciful death and should just be murdered if the scum like them can be kept off the streets. The general public also feels the same way. For example, in james bond the villain dies. Noone mourns his death or says " that was cruel, he should have gone to jail instead" but once in the real world people say those sorts of things which is just having double standards.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:54 am 
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mfreak wrote:
I accept you have opinions. But I just think they are wrong is all. Cuz they are just based on what is cheaper, or atleast what you think is cheaper. Whereas your reasons would be more valid if they somehow improved society or made the system better. :)


We are pointing out why capital punishment should be implemented at its core. Changes and improvements can always be made. The death penalty is a form of punishment and BD is a strategy game. What sets them apart is the little details. These will always be improved but that's not our job, its the government's job.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:59 am 
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Yeah so the motive is to not have double standards and try to be a little less violent and a little more civilized. That countries like UK have done, but countries like the US, India, China etc have not. If your system isnt broke, then dont try to fix it. Countries that have abolished the death penalty are already on the right track. Why go back a few decades now?

Quote:
We are pointing out why capital punishment should be implemented at its core. Changes and improvements can always be made. The death penalty is a form of punishment and BD is a strategy game. What sets them apart is the little details. These will always be improved but that's not our job, its the government's job.


Yes the death penalty is a form of punishment. A draconian form of punishment. Which is totally ineffective. The governments job is not good enough reason. We elect the government. We in a democratic system are responsible for asking the government to do something for us, and not wait for them to do something. So if you dont have any other reasons other than, costs, revenge mentality, or skewed moral values then get rid of the system that doesnt have any place in the 21st century.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Just making it clear, I don't have the same views as sabnc on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:12 pm 
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mfreak wrote:

No I am not. I am talking about India. We spend billions too on weapons too. So why is it a problem to feed a few criminals? Why should we have a death penalty that's barbaric by nature. We shouldnt. Its the 21st century.



Well the main prob is... well... the one getting death penalties here arent terrorists taking multiple lifes, but those who have been charged with homocides...

Its a fact that in India, not a single terrorist has been executed... Its not a problem as long as they keep them locked up good... but I dont want to see a hostage situation coming asking to free them, that happens a lot... in case of well you know about it, dont you (its one of recent news now-a-days...

EDIT : fixed the quote... it was embarassing

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Last edited by JadenMDL on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Death penalty
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:50 am 
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Diazepam wrote:
There is no point in saying that the people who are "for" the death penalty have no reason behind it and are just "following the herd". That's a rather small minded viewpoint to have. "My opinion is better, your opinion is stupid".
....
I don't agree that it's impossible to create an effective and efficient system for the death penalty to work.

its called troll baiting, the discussion died with the 'against' responding for about 6 posts in a row, im instigating for some view points here so i put out a simple list to discuss about. debating is all about critical thinking, just a thing from my debating days in school where i form rebuttals in advance knowing the main points the opposition would make. i could argue for or against, it doesnt matter, my official position is against the death penalty but i could potentially logically and rationally defend it.

you dont want efficiency in death penalties. you need a system that, with absolute certainty, doesnt kill innocents. there are plenty of incidences of people on death row being pardoned for being innocent all along and a slanted jury and judge with poor defending lawyers to blame.
repeals guarantee you arent killing someone without cause, its equivalent to state sponsered murder if not exactly so. fresh evidence = fresh repeals, no doctor who administer's the injection wants to find out 6 days later that DNA evidence gives the defendant an alibi and another criminal has confessed to the crime.

Quote:
The serial killer/terrorist would be dead. The removal of the criminal from society is 100%, and therefore effective in that respect. Remember, I would only be "for" this if it was done in such a way that it was cheaper than keeping him alive in prison.

1. it isnt cheaper.
2. life in prison is effectively removal from society.

dang it. im too fast for when there is no discussion and too slow for when i instigate it.

prisoners make license plates/do menial jobs for i think the rate in some prisons as $0.47 an hour.

you are wasting an untapped source of man power.

moreover, these people waived many of their rights due to their crimes.

alrighty. so far the main vibe from the 'for' camp is that they deserve death and therefore should die. that is not how justice works. that is not how law works. that is not how a developed country should work. the law is supposed to protect, how is life in jail with no parole not protecting society from that person?

moreover, it results in no blood on society's hands for killing the killer. where is the logic in that? he cant kill anymore in a maximum security jail.

its really just to prevent
Wrongful executions

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