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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:18 am 
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There is one point about this you dont look at mfreak. What if there is ppl suporting on the other side of the war? If they follow the rules why should they stay if they see that no rules aplay to suporters.

Never just one player that suports. I say same ruels to evrybody. Follow them ore get banned.

Looking at this in the way of busness. you might lose one that his pride hurt in banning him, but might lose 3 in allowing him to continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:39 am 
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No that will never happen. People that support if treated with respect and consideration wont leave. For example compensate them for losses (both cheaters or non cheaters, and in the case of a non cheater, losses incurred due to the other cheating) and implement an ingame feature such that a banned member, his outposts or his squads cant be attacked (In that case you wouldn't need compensation for loosing units, since you dont loose them at all). The punishment has been meted out in the form of a ban, by not letting him play, so it doesnt make sense to make the person loose his money as well. And make sure every ban has a timeline and it is not unreasonably long and is communicated to the offending member clearly.

I am not talking about never banning anyone. Ban them for serious issues like hacking BD, or hacking another's account etc. But rules like Account Sharing, and Farming are highly debatable ones. To avoid these you can bring in changes in how the game is played. For example, give ministers the power to move squads. That way everyone gets a full nights sleep.

Everyone, supporters or not can be treated equally. My point is, have some foresight when you ban someone. Bad language gets you a ban of 24 hours for Christs sakes. And people provoke you ingame just to get you banned.

When bans can be misused as strategy, and admins approach things with such stiff rules at hand, then its time to rethink how you handle cheaters and non cheaters. Especially people that cheat but support big time in this case. BTW people dont leave because their pride is hurt, they leave because they feel ripped off.

Oh and one more thing. Banning people on one server, results in bans in every other server he plays. Which is completely unfair. Ban that person only for the server he cheated.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:54 am 
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I think it is right if you are banned on one world you should be on all. Same person playing there as well and that person did somthing they should not have done.
You are looking at this form only one side. Open your eyes and look at it form both sides as i know you have been on both sides.

The banned players units should not be protected for all time. Maybe a short while til it is worked if somthing was done wrong. But after that it is open to attacks. if nothign worng have been done the units would not have in harms way and there would not have been such a problem.

And on the acount sharing question i do think it should be as it is now. If one player could move evrything someone who can be on close to evry tick of a round would not be abel to lose.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:23 am 
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How is it right? If someone doesnt cheat on one world but cheats on another. Then dont let him play only on the world he cheated. Thats fair enough. What I am trying to say, is that there should be no permanent bans for these so called regular offenses. The purpose of a ban is to not let the person play for a certain amount of time, because he cheated. If he did something really serious like hacking BD then a perm ban is understandable. If a player farmed, then it doesnt make sense to ban him forever. Things have to be kept in perspective and have to be in proportion.

What the current system results in, is the moment someone sees or suspects that someone cheated, they go running to the admins whining, not because they really care about a fair game, but because they have an opportunity to take the player out of the game and have it easy on themselves. Thats not what a ban should be used for. These same so called "fair players" wont go to the admins if these cheaters were on their teams or on allied teams.

I am looking at it from both sides. For example if someone created a 100 multies, like one dude did in my team, in E1 couple of eras back, then ban the multies, ban the guy responsible for a reasonable amount of time and compensate everyone else who was affected by those multies. Now since you banned this guy, make his squads safe from all attacks, or make his outposts neutral even to his alliance members until the ban is lifted. That would be fair.

If its a perm ban, then remove the players colony altogether, along with his squads and outposts.

The account sharing thing definitely has to be handled. The game requires too much of activity, and that is not how a strategy game is supposed to be. Lots of players have left just because of that. Its not strategy anymore its an online who has no life and is active game :D. People generally account share to save units, so give power to ministers in an alliance to move squads (not attack) for maybe a higher price of oil. That would eliminate account sharing to very negligible amounts.

Also, you can very well get players to lose units when they are online. You have to force them to make choices and maneuver them in a way that they get trapped etc. Its not true that you will get to kill someone only if they are inactive.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:39 am 
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It does not say enything about that, Point is teh person have broken the rule knowing it and know what will happend. Point of the bann is to try and teach that person it is wrong. Easy fix to this is not do enything worng and nothing will happend to you.
No dont do a perma ban first time but make the longer for each time.

Your point about the current system might be right but goes for both sides so evrything will be cheked out. Same easy fix. Do not do it and nothing will happend.

This game has always been about activity and strategy. And part of it is beeing abel to be on when somthing happends. Beeing adel for one person to control evrybody moves is wrong in that way. You say not to attack. lot of fightes are won in defending not attacking.

not saying things can happend by admins doing things wrong ore even be to quick about things. i have had my rounds of some admins jumping the ban button to fast ageint allies members.

Best fix is stricter guied lins for admins and players on what is allowed and not in game

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:25 pm 
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See this is exactly what I am against. Whatever rules we have against farming, account sharing etc, are highly debatable. Lets say I get my friend to build somewhere, conquer him and take his crystals. Its farming. How would you know though? Every outpost that is not yours can be taken. So if a guy lays 10 outposts, and you take it the tick after, does it mean that you farmed? No, you cant say that for sure in EVERY instance.

I have seen people banned, because they logged in from a net cafe, or a library. I have seen people from the same college play on the same server, and if they used the library, some of them have got banned. While they were perfectly honest players.

So you see, how most of these ingame rules, are open to interpretation. Admins solely make decisions on what they think is right and what they think is wrong. This results in a faulty, stiff system. While I am not against bans for serious offences, ridiculous bans for trivial things like language, or very long bans for something like farming especially when people pay money is not acceptable, while the offence itself can be questionable. Nor do we have any recourse, over a non communicative admin. This simply drives people away, so saying - Dont do this, is NOT gonna work. You HAVE to have an ingame mechanics, that reduces the need for cheating, for example account sharing. And if it is for everyone, I am sure actual account sharing instances will go down. I am not saying this is the ONLY solution, there could be many more that we could probably change ingame to reduce such violations.

Bottomline, this is an internet game. People WILL account share. Technically sharing accounts is categorically NOT wrong. Its only because this game depends so much on activity it happens and is considered to be wrong. So reduce the need for activity, bring in more strategic aspects, through ingame mechanics, and you will automatically see account sharing instances go down.

As for the admins, reduce the power they have to influence events ingame. The relic thing was an example. But on the other hand, make the need for them to make decisions based on their judgement much less. Through changing ingame mechanics. Last of all, make admins more accountable for communication, be it a ban notice, or an ingame query.

And most importantly, consider how much a person has spent on the server, before banning. A perm ban on a guy that spent 2000 dollars, from an opponents point of view, might suit you as a player. But not Battledawn. And I am here talking about BD as a whole. If players who are supporters in the opponents team are gonna quit , because the other player did not get banned, then it clearly shows that the current system is faulty. Players simply go running to admins, just to get others banned, and not because they care that they ACTUALLY farmed or acct shared or whatever. If its so much of a problem, then have some set penalties for each violation.

Farming - X number of days OR Reduced production for a period of time OR reduction in a certain number of units. Something like that.

Account sharing - X number of days or whatever.

Lastly update the ToS with realistic Donts than with scenarios which might be considered loopholes.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:40 pm 
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The idea that supporters are the life-blood of Battledawn is seriously flawed. We are a game and as such we are always focused on increasing the size of our player base.

Every single player generates advertising revenue for Tacticsoft whenever they open the website, so the company profits from every single player. Furthermore, the non-supporters vastly outnumber the supporters - as such, if the Supporters receive preferential treatment then it is likely that the non-supporters would pack up and leave in droves, which would kill this game.

Supporters and non-supporters alike are both profitable for Tacticsoft and Battledawn could not survive without both of these groups. As such, the admins have literally no choice but to treat them both equally because they can't afford to neglect one group in favour of the other.



Furthermore, a supporter is often less likely to cheat than a non-supporter because they actually have something to lose (their investment) whereas a non-supporter has absolutely nothing to lose. As a result, the most serious cheaters (huge farm operations for example) are often non-supporters who couldn't care less if they got caught. Supporter cheaters are far fewer in number and severity of the cheating (since greater severity increases likelihood of getting caught)

Could it be that the perception that supporters get less harsh bans is simply because often they are in fact cheating in a less severe way than many determined non-supporter cheaters do, for the reason detailed above.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:40 pm 
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yes lot of htings beeing banned for is not right as i have said in my last post. Read what you replay to. I do know that lot of things like yout exampel can be proven to be wrong whit ban and can get lifted.

I think it should not have enything to say how much you pay to play here as there are others that do the same thing. To make my point if i pay moore then the other i should just tell the admin to ban him and it should be done?

You fail to see the point. One player have no moore rights to do somthing then the other. No only one player out there that spends a lot of money on this game.

On the relic thing i will not say eny moore then i think it was right in the way it was done.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:54 pm 
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You have no idea how many complaints we get regarding how biased the game already is to supporters! Supporters pay for tokens, which gives them boost, which already gives them an edge over other players, and even over players who cannot afford to pay as much as them. They pay for an edge legally and they get it. To argue that they should be allowed further edge by allowing them to also cheat is unreasonable, and makes no sense at all.


And to say that potential supporters "dont exist" is a complete fallacy. Ill give an example.

Recently, I started playing an MMO racing game called "need for speed world". I was given a 3 day car rental of a Porsche Cayman S which helped me build up levels and in game cash. The cash I had built up was not enough to get the car I wanted, so I had planned, as my rental was running out, to buy some boost points to get the car I wanted. However, just as my car was about to expire, I was booted from the server and the server would not allow me to log in again until I purchased a boost that was smaller, did not have enough value to get the car I wanted and included no benefits at all that appealed to me over the one I already had my eye on.

I literally was *about* to become a supporter (within minutes!), and when that happened, I simply decided it was not worth my time and uninstalled the game and have not played in almost a month. To argue that I, as a supporter, did not exist at that point is a ridiculous argument to make. They lost me as a customer before I was given the chance to be one because they tried to force me into a package I did not want or need.

BattleDawn players are no different. The medium might change, but it is the same principle. By saying that none of the free to play players are potential supporters is completely ignorant of the ability of any F2P player to become a supporter at any moment. To simply alientate them because they have not supported yet is dangerous and makes no sense.


Supporters have to abide by the same rules as any other player. This will not change. Break the rules, and you will be treated the same as everyone else. You pay for tokens and the edge you get from them. Paying for the permission to cheat, is not, and has NEVER been part of the deal!

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 Post subject: Re: Supporter Treatment
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:56 pm 
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deadman is right about this especialy on the account sharing thing
to be honest i stick with 1 tik worlds for a reason and that is I HAVE A LIFE and i can be allowed to be a lot more strategical than active and to be quite honest i see activity and team work as the key components to battle dawn not strategy if you gather up all 12/14 members for attacks what do you need strategy for except for the basic spy protection and avoiding nukes/dragons which is not that hard WITH ACTIVITY

which comes to another thing defenses are almost useless especialy nukes because you will A be defending against a top alliance which is active and will be able to easily dodge them
B can easily be turned against you with a ton of spams and honestly how many times in wars does nukes win you the war? hmm lets see HARDLY EVER.

to be honest battle dawn is hardly a strategy game it's a waste your whole life on here and never sleep to win game there are a lot of changes that need to be made in my mind and with the whole incadint in E4 it is FINALY being brung up

however i do not agree with bashing the admin about banning supporters and what things should be bannable or not
multies banned

farming either production decrease until it is ever or temporary ban

account sharing flawed because as i said this game is about activity when it should be about strategy

language no people get prevoked and fustrated by others why do you think there is a problem with language in the 1st place people just have no respect and make people so mad to the point they cuss some1 out

but these rules were made a long time ago and admins do need a little more respect than having people go whining to them when something doesnt go their way which is why there needs to be change because as the way it stands that will never stop and seth joe and andrew will all continue to get bashed when people are unhappy

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