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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Duffman wrote:
Try a longer term graph there.

how long term? most of these graphs are made from info when accurate meterological thermometers were invented to more modern times.

what kind of way are you suggesting to find the temp? ice sheet thickness? icecore samples?

perhaps you should provide to show that it is a natural phenomenon?

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:26 am 
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The problem with a graph starting from the 1850s is that there's no baseline to compare temperatures against. Its hard to explain verbally so i'll try visually. If the graph looks like this, then global warming will appear to be a normal natural cycle. However, if it goes more or less diagonally up continously, then your graph is valid and omitting past years doesn't make a difference. Don't diss the fake graph made on paint. :P

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How do you propose for me to 'show' that something is a natural phenomenon?

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:30 am 
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Duffman wrote:
The problem with a graph starting from the 1850s is that there's no baseline to compare temperatures against. Its hard to explain verbally so i'll try visually. If the graph looks like this, then global warming will appear to be a normal natural cycle. However, if it goes more or less diagonally up continously, then your graph is valid and omitting past years doesn't make a difference. Don't diss the fake graph made on paint. :P

Image
*applauds :P *

How do you propose for me to 'show' that something is a natural phenomenon?
exactly how you want me to show you that it is an unnatural phenomenon. disregarding anything short of 10 major volcanic eruptions in a row, show that increased CO2 levels do not equate with increased temperatures. or you can use a baseline and show that the rate that our current climate in increasing in temperature is a perfectly normal speed for natural climate cycles

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:32 am 
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What I really need to find is senator Fielding's & Andrew Bolt's graphs that show climate change as a natural cycle, then that would epic win. In case you didn't know, Fielding was going to/has already confront(ed) Al Gore with them as evidence.

If I find those, is that GG = lose?


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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:56 am 
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Duffman wrote:
What I really need to find is senator Fielding's & Andrew Bolt's graphs that show climate change as a natural cycle, then that would epic win. In case you didn't know, Fielding was going to/has already confront(ed) Al Gore with them as evidence.

If I find those, is that GG = lose?

not really i can always contend them as false or that human actions are speeding up the process which results in minimal amount of time for species to adapt and humans to prepare.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:22 am 
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With that logic you're using, I can just say that any trend at all is just the manifestation of a natural cycle.

Therefore, MM-GG = lose.

Q. E. D.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:20 am 
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but i can use the logic that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. humans excrete copious quantities of this greenhouse gas.

therefore humans contribute to global warming in an unnatural way? in a way that is accelerated?

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:51 am 
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/sidestep

But I can use the logic that CO2 is released by the heating of water

ie. increased carbon dioxide levels is not the cause of global climate change, but the result

http://www.john-daly.com/oceanco2/oceanco2.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:19 am 
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the ocean as a carbon sink can only retain and absord CO2 as carbonic acid depending on the temperature.

the ocean alone absorbs roughly 30%~ of human CO2 output,

the fact that the temperature has reached the point where carbon is no longer stored in the oceans says a lot...

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 Post subject: Re: Why Plotter's always correct, Global Warming
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Ahh, time to reawaken a seemingly dead topic :D

You guys all have it wrong. Global warming has nothing to do with GG.

NOTHING.

If it is man made at all, I go with the idea that it is because the Earth is a relatively closed loop system (I know, I know, heat does escape, but it has reached a bit of an equilibrium thanks to our beloved sun) and we do something called... BURN.

We BURN fossil fuels which results in another source of heat energy on Earth, and we are doing it at a much faster pace than we used to. For example: The car. Im not even going to look up how many gallons (or liters if you prefer) of gasoline are burned daily because we all know it is tons more than it used to be. Like, literal tons. You know, the metric kind.

Anyways, a side effect of our specific usage of said gallons of gasoline is an increase in kinetic energy through methods of the engine, whether it be a car engine, jet engine, steam engine, or really whatever else you would like to talk about in the world of moving parts. Kinetic energy does something that you may have heard about... it causes friction. Friction is conversion of kinetic energy into heat energy. 2nd new (or I should say more accelerated) source of heat.

Then we could start talking about the increase in electricity usage and how the inefficiencies in those systems are yet another source of heat...

Or another byproduct of cars... roads... literally rock just sitting there absorbing more heat than naturally would be absorbed by the sun which is released into the air by night, the time which would generally be used to cool off a bit.

I could keep BSing more stuff like this, but then I would just be unclear about what my actual point is.

The Earth is such a huge system that no one can truly comprehend how it works. By saying that GG is undoubtedly the cause, we are ignoring just about every other possible cause, and there are plenty (I like the one about aliens causing it, it just fits in with the whole conspiracy theory thing)

So here is my solution: Be more efficient.

That fits both economics and environment. Eat that one Al Gore.


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